The Breaking of the Hogwarts Fellowship

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

For the record, I agree with those of you who think Snape will turn out for the good in the end. And I don't think he's in it for his advantage. Rather, he's trying to survive. Imagine being in his place. You're one of the more powerful wizards, a former Death Eater; being former, now that Voldemort is back, you are considered a traitor unless you can persuade and convince and demonstrate the opposite, just in order to save your skin. That means Snape is forced to play double agent. He knows that Dumbledore is going to give him the benefit of the doubt, yet is no fool; so he tried to do as much for Dumbledore as he can without appearing to do too much against Voldemort. A tricky proposition for anyone at all! Why he swore that oath, however, I'm still trying to figure out. At any rate, I think Snape is still merely trying to survive, especially having sworn the oath. Did he swear it in order to keep that aunt of Malfoy from getting the mind of Voldemort turned against him? That's the only thing I can think of.

I also think Snape may turn out to be 'good' in the end. There are a lot of clues in the text that he will do so, only apprent to the reader after some digging, which is appropriate as I also think that only Snape and Dumbledore knew that Snape was in fact on the 'good' side - it would be far too dangerous for anyone else to know this.

Why is Snape willing to take an oath swearing allegiance to Voldermort and to kill Dumbledore? I think he will be instrumental in leading Harry to Voldemort and to their 'final battle'; he has managed to foster an incredible hatred in Harry, who will now pursue him and thus get to the real enemy who is very elusive. It also, from a narrative point of view, makes for a better story as we see Harry being distracted from his real task in order to go after Snape for revenge.

I also believe that Harry will be back at Hogwarts. In much the same way that his Aunt's house provides him with protection, I think Hogwarts also does the same. More importantly, I think that there is at least one Horocrux hidden there, so a return will be necessary. And there was one at Grimmauld Place, the locket, which in fact could now be anywhere if Mundungus or Kreacher took it. There may also be a return to Godric's Hollow as I think Harry may believe a Horocrux is also hidden there.

I have to wonder if there was this level of speculation in between publication of Two Towers and Return of the King? One thing both Tolkien and Rowlings do have in common is their ability to leave us wanting more, from leaving us hanging by a thread. Rowlings has developed this in the later books of the series which have been much more accomplished and dark, whereas Tolkien seemed to have developed this ability from the start - was this a result of his having written all three books at once, in comparison to Rowlings' more gradual writing process?

[Cailín]

Now why do you feel so strongly that Snape is evil, Glirdan? Personally, I have never doubted him, but I may be blinded since he is my favourite character. It all comes down to trusting Dumbledore, as is said by Lupin in book six too - if Snape is evil, Dumbledore has failed in the end, and not only that, he has shown weakness by pleading for his life. I just cannot believe that. But that is not entirely relevant here, I suppose.

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

One thing both Tolkien and Rowlings do have in common is their ability to leave us wanting more, from leaving us hanging by a thread. Rowlings has developed this in the later books of the series which have been much more accomplished and dark, whereas Tolkien seemed to have developed this ability from the start - was this a result of his having written all three books at once, in comparison to Rowlings' more gradual writing process?

It is evident from JK Rowling's writing that she, unlike Tolkien, did not know how exactly things were going to end from the start. She obviously had a general idea, but she has herself admitted that some things did not work out the way she wanted them to work and there are several continuity mistakes to be found in her novels. They are few, though. I'm not sure whether I agree Tolkien leaves you hanging by a thread as much as Rowling does - I actually find the cliffhangers and red herrings in the Potter series far more agonizing, but that may be because Lord of the Rings is such a familiar story. I do agree that JK Rowling has grown as an author since she started writing the first book, while Tolkien's style remained consistent throughout (arguably not in the first few chapters that seem to have some "Hobbit" influence).

What makes Tolkien, in my opinion, superior to most and possibly all fantasy authors is that he wrote his trilogy in one go. It happens so often that a series goes astray just because the author wishes to publish and thus sell more books or does not dare to abandon a familiar setting… Of course, Tolkien did the same thing but Lord of the Rings is still done and can easily be read and enjoyed as a complete work.

As for their return to Hogwarts... well, whether Harry returns or not, JK Rowling has to (and has already gradually been doing that) let go of the structure of the previous novels. It should be interesting.

Now, this from Cailin makes me feel really old. I was a fan of the Lord of the Rings long before there was a Harry Potter.

Tar, it has little to do with feeling or being old. I just read Tolkien rather… later than most people here. You can actually look up the exact date I started reading: it's the same day I made my 100th post on the Downs.

[littlemanpoet]

These are not meant to be one to one correlations, just a reminder on that.

It struck me that Harry Potter is not the only Rowling character who corresponds to Frodo. Who is it that is given the almost impossible task? Who faces death? Who is it who must struggle through until the bitter end? And who is it that is saved from doing the most horrible thing that could be done, by the supposed betrayal of another? Yes, Frodo in LotR; but who in HP? Draco Malfoy. And Snape saves him from murdering Dumbledore by doing so himself. Murdering Dumbledore I find to be akin to claiming the Ring. It would have been the point of no return for Malfoy, and he is saved from it. He isn't even completely willing to do it, as Dumbledore assures him that he is no killer; but would become one if he had followed through. So Snape is akin to Gollum, and Malfoy to Frodo. See it?

By contrast, what's HP's primary title (whether he likes it or not) through HBP? "The Chosen One". Who's the chosen one in LotR? Isn't that more of an Aragorn type role? It's interesting, however, that Malfoy's struggle is seen at third hand instead of at first hand. (um, so what would be second hand? heck I don't know )

[Eruanna]

An interesting connection between Frodo and Aragorn, that I had not considered before lmp.
Although this is not meant to be a one to one correlation I do have to say that when I read the first HP book and the description of Harry's scar (which still causes him pain, therefore is never really healed) I immediately thought that Harry was Frodo. There are also, of course, the other similarities already mentioned.
I also have to join with those who believe that Snape will prove to be one of the good guys, in the end.

Here is my theory.

Frodo Baggins = Harry

Samwise Gangee = Ron

Meriadoc 'Merry'Brandybuck = Hermione

Peregrin'Pippin'Took = Neville


Gandalf = Dumbledore


Boromir = Snape ( based on HBP. I know that Snape betrayed dumbledore and killed him, but it is my believe that he did it under force. He also adviced Harry to close his mind. Maybe i am wrong, but i think that Snape might save one of Harry's friends. )

Aragorn= ?

Legolas = ?


Gimli = A gryffindor (
gryffindors and slytherins dont like each other very much)

Sindar elves = centaurs

Mirkwood ( greenwood the great) = Forbidden Forrest


Bilbo = Sirius ( great affection, Both hold a special significance to the two heros. Both are loved like parents

Dúnedain ( rangers of the North ) = Order of the Phoenix


Rangers of Ithlien = Aurors

Sauron[/B] = Voldemord


Mouth of Sauron = Death eater ( Lucious Malfoy)

Ring = horcruxes

Wormtounge = Wormtail

Gollum = kreacher


Deatheaters = Goblins ( orks )

Wargs = Werewolfs

Faramir = Lupin

Eowyn = Tonks

Halbarad = Kingsley Shacklebolt

so what do you say

[littlemanpoet]

The correspondences are clear enough at a glance, but on the surface. I wish that you had given descriptions of the correspondences that you see along with the person = person set-up.