WWJ V: The Broken Souls

[Anguirel]

Thanks Holby, anvil and all. A perfectly adequate self-defence. I had little foundation on which to vote, of course, and the case against THE Ka seemed so...obvious...allow me to mutter to myself about woods and trees.

I now suspect you no more than most. Possibly a little less.

We need to examine the victorious wolf-hangers, the THE Ka bandwagon, and see to what extent we can clear them of wrongdoing.

[JennyHallu]

the case against THE Ka seemed so...obvious

Then why, if you felt you had little else to go on, did you NOT vote for the obvious wolf?

The case you made against Holby felt, frankly, mostly specious at the time. I find it mildly curious that such a strong player as yourself chose to post mostly in ambiguous rhymes, then vote on a weak case when you admit the case for the proven wolf was strong?

[Anguirel]

Because I know that an "obvious wolf" often turns out to be a helpful chap with a cloak and sword, a crossbow and or an astrolabe.

Why did I post in poetry for a little while? Passes the time, exercises the Muse, and keeps up a factor that cannot be easily worked out by analysis or mathematics-namely morale.

Besides, my verse wasn't wholly valueless. What was dangerous was when the whole village slid, Pied Piper style, into doggerel echoing my own. And it's quite interesting to observe who were most eager to don the reassuring bardic role, and what their motives may have been.

As for the accusation towards Holby-you may laugh at it, but you'd be considering it if THE Ka had turned out to be innocent. Presenting an alternate view-even if an incorrect one-is always, always preferable to a herd vote. There are many possible wolves in the Ka-camp as it is. Do you yearn so much, in retrospect, for me to be in that running too?

A range of opinions is no evil, and if you really desire to hang the lone theorists, you end up with a pack of pheasants waiting to be converted, quite systematically, into game pie.

[JennyHallu]

Thank you for your answer. The rhyme had been bothering me since your first few posts, and as I had connection trouble all Day yesterDay--I was lucky to be able to vote, I was not able to ask you about it.

I think the quick descension into copycat verse was, however, easily foreseen.

***

But, since the Ka was a wolf, speculations on what we would have been doing toDay had she been innocent are largely, in my mind, irrelevant. I think today we need to take a close look at those among us, who, although they came in and voted long after the case for THE Ka - and its likely result - was already set in stone, voted in a second, lateborn bandwagon.

Originally Posted by Naria

Come on man, do you honestly think that Sleepy would set me up like this? I would like to think that you would give him more credit than this. I picked my occupation not Sleepy, I think he's just going along with our job descriptions at this point in the game. So, don't read too much into what Sleepy has said about me....it won't get you very far.

Apparently, Sleepy will set up the wolves in obvious ways. While his hint about Ka required some insider information, it didn't require much.

[Anguirel]

I think he'll be more reserved with regard to narration in future. Rather bad luck on the predators if he isn't...

The Nogrod bandwagon too, as has been mentioned by...Nogrod...is so bumbling, bizarre, ill-motivated and yet popular that it deserves a look. It could be supported, though not, I tend to feel, initiated, by a cack-handed werewolf.

[JennyHallu]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

I think he'll be more reserved with regard to narration in future. Rather bad luck on the predators if he isn't...

The Nogrod bandwagon too, as has been mentioned by...Nogrod...is so bumbling, bizarre, ill-motivated and yet popular that it deserves a look. It could be supported, though not, I tend to feel, initiated, by a cack-handed werewolf.

I'm sorry...pure question of definition. What does cack-handed mean?

[Valier]

Our pooR Littlemanpoet! Dead as well! *cOugh* *cough*

I seem to have come down with a cold from all this so called fresh air.*Cough* *Cough* (Ok Ok It's because writing in z's and v's is really harder than I thought!)

I am glad that we got one of the baddies! I have looked at The Ka's posts, there were only two. She only mentioned Valesse, Jenny and Roa. She said they fell out of her suspision. She voted for Thinlo because she had not posted yet. Also suspected Witch-Queen for her no-show.

I did see afterwards that there was a bit of a bandwagon for Nogrod. I would have probably been the first to vote for him, but Valesse beat me to it. Nogrod's posts....I don't know errk me. But I need to read his posts over. Valesse has come up for me to look at today. Her post/vote for Nogrod, came right after I posted my concerns about him. I was taking a shot in the dark (You always do on the first day) I didn't think anyone would vote with me, it was pretty spread out then. The Ka did mention her First as not being suspisious....

Well I'll go back through and see if I can come up with anything else.*cough* *cough*

P.S. Please do not take the change in accent as suspisious...It really was hard to put down thoughts with all that nonsense...Sorry! I thought it would be fun...It was not.)

[Nogrod]

Case Naria

The "abusement"-post #100 (the quote here was preceded by quotes of mine pointing to different "hints" by Sleepy that could be associated to Naria):

Come on man, do you honestly think that Sleepy would set me up like this? I would like to think that you would give him more credit than this. I picked my occupation not Sleepy, I think he's just going along with our job descriptions at this point in the game. So, don't read too much into what Sleepy has said about me....it won't get you very far.

do you honestly think that Sleepy would set me up like this? Surely not! Could anyone of us give an honest vote on the first day? (Well one can always hope, there is a chance for that...)

I would like to think that you would give him more credit than this. Even though there is a some reason behind this, it might as well be read as pure rhetorics gag, trying to make any suspicions based on Sleepy's texts unbelievable! And we already saw, that Sleepy did provide us our first wolf-kill!

So, don't read too much into what Sleepy has said about me....it won't get you very far Am I just seeing something where there is nothing, but this could be read as a clear threat!!! Read it in that light, and you will see it...

And the "votingpost":

Wow, looks like the time is drawing near so I shall vote now. I don't agree with the way Nogrod went after all of the quiet ones so quick and early and kept that discussion going, having someone like him around would not help at all...out for blood he is!

Wow, looks like the time is drawing near so I shall vote now. And this remark is done only some ½ hours later from the earlier one!!! Wow - indeed! What a surprise to her it must have been?

I don't agree with the way Nogrod went after all of the quiet ones so quick and early and kept that discussion going We indeed had this same discussion earlier: posts 32 (Naria) and 38 (me). That seems to have not have any bearing on her accusations. Check them, and see for yourselves.

So she's ignoring the reply, and repeating the accusation that was shown illinformed or misunderstood! Just hoping, that no-one would check the thing out?

having someone like him around would not help at all... So it's not helpful to have someone around, who really tries to make the difference (I do admit, that my first day performance was not so good: I couldn't make you all to see my point, and I didn't bet on the right horse - it was just so unbelievable that the mod would bring some RL things into a game...). I would like to ask Naria, which kind of people she would see useful around? Maybe a village full of WQ's (no posts) could be nice, or Gil-Galads (one, nonsense)? To whom, might these be of assistance: to the WW's or to the villagers? If you are a villager proper and not a traitor, why do you think that people who try to elaborate over things, who try to find clues etc. are "not of any help at all"? I would find even a elaborate wolf "of even some help" (compared to this "no help at all")!!!

So what do we have here above?

Trying to play down looking at Sleepy's hints (which ½ hour later turned out to be relevant and to the point).

Threatening! (who could actually use a threat in this game, but a wolf?)

Lying / false accusations.

Pure wolf-talk (talk from the wolf's point of view).

Faltering rhetoric and questionable turns of words.

You may all think about this what you will. I will read Naria's posts quite carefully today...

There is the hint by Sleepy, which I myself admit - alongside Naria - to be quite absurdingly "too clear": there is a madman loose (Naria is pictured as mad) etc. But her actions, and the above, really makes me suspicious (being suspicious is not a proof of anything, and not even an accusation!).

But: jumpy like a wulf?

Look also at the rhetoric at Naria's post #32...

[Anguirel]

Originally Posted by JennyHallu

Apparently, Sleepy will set up the wolves in obvious ways. While his hint about Ka required some insider information, it didn't require much.

I'm sorry Jenny-lately you've been rather a stalwart ally-but I recognise this emotion. It is frustration.

[JennyHallu]

I'm afraid I can be totally innocent and still think this game seems rather weighted. I have been your ally, Ang, and I am an innocent...but I still am allowed to feel rather sorry for the wolves.

[Anguirel]

Your defence is noted. But that sentiment will still be formidable evidence for the prosecution. On which note, a joke I read this morning:

PRISONER: As God is my judge I'm not guilty.

JUDGE: He's not, I am, you are.

[Valesse]

Clarification:
Now hang on Ang, I didn't say that I believed you to be the wolf, I just was trying to express how we need to be careful incase our remaining wolf decided to seem inventive. I could have done a much better job at wording it, but seeing as the basic impression seems to have been communicated, I'll leave it alone. I might be slippery, but after all the grief I had last game without being accused until the last Day, it's quite a bit more comfortable. I don't feel like a near-invisable chicken with it's head cut off.

Curve Ball:
I'd like to mention something that might make me look a little more guilty of these crimes, because it doesn't settle well with me that you're all using it as proof:

Originally Posted by Seery McSeererson

I don't think Val would be foolish enough to bandwagon an innocent with her fellow wolf.

I voted before Enca did yesterDay, and I'm quite sure she just voted for her life. Thank you, Roa for the support. I had a feeling you were the seer since... well I voiced it in #238

Originally Posted by Me

Roa brought it up, and seeing as I'm not exactly wary of her I'm very keen on looking in to it

So where are we now in the game? When the wolf starts to panic? By the sudden shortening of posts, and desperation in tone it sure looks like it.

[Encaitare]

1. littlemanpoet, currently deceased. He worded his suspicions for her as such:

Originally Posted by Elempi

1. Votes for Thinlomiel after others have voiced some suspicion in that direction, thereby following a trend.
2. She protests way too much in defense of every single possible contingency of which she finds herself able to be accused; that seems rather guilty behavior to me.
3. I notice that others have found other areas of suspicion that I have not yet had time to research.

The "other areas" would refer to the messages in Sleepy's posts.

2. Roa_Aoife

I believe she was the first one to really bring up the thing with the Cupid's arrow, and Sleepy and Ka's RL relationship. She based her vote on that.

3. Encaitare

I was at first skeptical of whether the theories had any substance. But as it was Day 1 I had nothing else to go on, and I find too much self-defense and empty words to be suspicious, hence my vote.

4. Thinlomien

Admitted that a vote for Ka is bandwagoning, but also that Ka is "the most suspicious peson here," and therefore voted for her nevertheless.

5. JennyHallu

The final vote for Ka, though she crossposted with Thinlomien. She wrote that the Cupid's Arrow argument "seems very very sound".

It's quite possible that one of these is a wolf, though it's difficult to say who it could be. It's doubtful that it's Roa, as she cast the second vote that really got the whole thing going. That'd have to be one bold wolf. As for Lommy and Jenny, I would wonder if a wolf would allow the bandwagon to continue. Since Jenny crossposted with Lommy, they both would have thought they were the fourth vote. At this time, the voting still could have been swung in a different direction with a convincing enough argument. So again, it's a little hard to tell. If anyone has some ideas about this, let's hear them!

(I have left myself out of my analysis there, as analyzing my votes is a task better suited to others.)

Now I must depart; I shall return later tonight.

[Anguirel]

Cack-handed, damosel, means clumsy, unsubtle.

An interesting analysis of the Ka-voters from Enca...for some reason I'd thought Roa had started the movement, not LMP. Thanks for the clarification. It's true that by the orthodox patterns of wolvery, the signs point to Jenny and Thinlomien, but who knows if a more radical tactic would serve us more reliably?

I wonder what sort of part THE Ka played in the triumvirate. Though articulate, I feel she wouldn't have risen to a commanding role. Depending on who her companions were, of course.

I am not especially worried by LMP's valiant fall. The wolves obviously slew him thinking that even if not gifted, his experience would make him a fearsome enemy. I would differ from that approach. As an innocent, he causes altogether too much controversy, usually pretty much undeserved...but old habits die hard, and I'm almost glad his puzzle has been solved.

Look well upon the analysis he left, now we now he's reliable. Alas, he wasn't as talkative as usual...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

An interesting analysis of the Ka-voters from Enca...for some reason I'd thought Roa had started the movement, not LMP. Thanks for the clarification. It's true that by the orthodox patterns of wolvery, the signs point to Jenny and Thinlomien, but who knows if a more radical tactic would serve us more reliably?

Just came to my mind, that Jenny said she cross-posted with Thinlómien. Well there is 10 minutes gap between their votes, and Jenny's is not so very long or thorough one! Everyone knows, one can write to the post, that one has x-posted.

There even isn't that edited...xxx -thing attached to the bottom of the post.

I may be seeing ghosts here, but perhaps there could be something?

My time to sleep draws near, but anyone with nothing else to do: a quick look at Jenny's posting might be worthwhile?

[Anguirel]

A chimerical accusation, Nogrod-give the poor doomsayer a break. If she deserves suspicion, it's certainly not because of quibbling over posting times. I think her a better sport than to resort to the low trick of claiming to cross-post, and expect she paused for a refreshing quart of whisky or two...or at the least a cup of tea...

But I digress. Nogrod, one wolf may have voted for you, but if two did, then I'm a methagallinarius d'or rampant on a field sable. I would advise you to broaden your scope a little beyond those who suspected you, though I accept your reaction is a natural one.

[Nogrod]

Case Valesse

The "votepost" for me, her last, was the following:

I'm not so keen on Nogrod, who first called for a system of murder. I don't claim to know exactly how to tell a bad egg when I see one, but I feel there is something just a little too drastic going on in that mind. This is death, and we should not be so quick to it, I'd say. It might not be the best explanation, but by the way things look toDay, it'll have no effect, so no harm done. It's more expressing my hunch than anything else.

1. This is death, and we should not be so quick to it, I'd say. What a rhetoric!
A) Valesse had known, even before the start of the game, that we would have to lynch one the first day. So what I call this kind of thing, is hypocrisy.
B) She herself was quick enough to throw a lynching verdict on me just two sentences after that! So who's the quick one here? (there is no hint, or theory, or accusation before this one!) I spent the whole day trying to figure out some reasonable ways to act on, when the time would be.
C) I have not said, we should be quick to point the finger! I myself gave my vote quite reluctantly, because any of the theories didn't seem quite right, at the last possible instance for me.

2. To call a system of murder? Well yes and no. I called for something other than random killing with just hunches (or picking the one, three names down in the list!) - if there just could be another way. That surely always is the hope of the new day: that the evening would be wiser than the morning. And luckily, you could try to help in it by trying to get some action. I have not said, that we should immediately lynch or vote to lynch anyone not posting in the first three hours of game. Even I am not that stupid!

3. I don't claim to know exactly how to tell a bad egg when I see one, but I feel there is something just a little too drastic going on in that mind. You could say that from anyone, and by the shelter of the net, really throw it around. It's more expressing my hunch than anything else The only sentence to the point in this message?

But as 3. (or the sentence preceeding it in actual post) is not so bad as the others, I'd still like to look at points 1. and 2. from a more general point of view.

So why is she clad in the mist of rhetoric (including downright lies!), and why the false accusations?

The bad rhetoric (or lying) might show, that she is hiding her real intentions. Lying = trying us to be convinced that she is not thinking what she actually is thinking.

The false accusations (my "system of murder" - rhetoric here too...) might show that she is either deliberately avoiding the mentioning of my posts where I have rebutted this fantastic interpretation of my views,

or then, she just hasn't read the posts!

Well, we can't just enforce every player to read every post! On the other hand, it's quite questionable, from the moral point of view, to play without reading the posts.

What is downright suspicious (on both moral and wolvish standards), is going to vote for someone, who's posts you haven't read - accusing that one with false grounds, while hiding one's own intents by rhetoric that one herself denies two sentences later!

The two earlier posts were normal posts of the early hours. Nothing in them that I would like to go for, at least the time being...

Suspicious for me, but not a strong candidate. At this hour.