WWJ V: The Broken Souls

[Naria]

SLEEPY'S RULES (methinks a mod can pretty much make up a rule of whatever they want)

These are his:

-Non-Retraceable votes
-Double Lynchings are allowed
-When making a vote please keep it in a line seperate from the rest of the post and have it in bold with two pluses (++).
-Please stay invisible for your duration of the game
-Refrain from discussing the game outside of the game area
-There shall be no posting during the night
-The dealine is 2pm EST, 3pm CST and 7pm GMT
-It may be cliched but, 'Enjoy yourself!'

Nogrod, where does it say that one gets an automatic boot if there is a 2 day no post? I don't see one. And if there are outside rules that apply to every ww game then I am not aware of them. If I was then of course I would not have voted for WQ. I was after you, but during DAY 2 I had dropped some suspicion of you and went for the person that hadn't posted yet for reasons that I had stated.

Is it me or is Nogrod having a very easy time 'swaying' people? If there was a cobbler in this game I would seriously have to look into him.

Today's narration: When I first read it, I didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Then I re-read it, I know what I am and anyone that re-read it would also know. I am trying to save a now ordo Valier, and Thinlo keeps me from doing that. Valier then dies and I say "you fool" to Thinlo and punch her(Thinlo making Valier's death immenent in the voting).

I am wondering why so much attention is being brought on me....I thought I had put enough "substance" in my posts. I will defend myself if need be, as will others I'm sure(defend themselves). I feel that I am caught between the proverbial 'rock and a hard place'. I don't want to actually come out and say what I am, but I will if need be.

[Encaitare]

Just a quick one before I go to sleep. Anguirel and Eonwe, I would like an explanation of why exactly you suspect me so much. So far the only evidence you seem to present is a vote for a wolf and a good analysis, both which were beneficial to the village.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

We have too much of a past in common.

Ang, I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Are you still referring to that anvil thing? Because if you think I remember everyone's roles from way back when, you're giving me far too much credit.

Come tomorrow morning, I think I will vote for Thinlomien, because of Holby's vote for her yesterDay, or possibly Gil, if he hasn't posted at all by the time I vote.

[Anguirel]

Yes, I was referring to the anvil thing. It seemed...just within the bounds of possibility. It's also interesting that you remember it was "way back then". I made no mention of which village I referred to. As it happens, yes, it was the second one. What a fine memory you have, Grandmother.

But there are other reasons too, Enca. Jenny isn't picking up my tone of voice when I refer to your beautiful analyses.

You were the first to analyse the Ka bandwagon, of which you were a part. As a result, subsequent voters, drawing on your source, were bound to pay more attention to Jenny and Thinlomien than you.

Likewise, as Eonwe pointed out, you were the first to analyse Holbytlass' posts. Unless we go straight to the evidence-and some will just refer to your excellent account for convenience-we could be seeing Seer clues through wolf-tinted spectacles. For instance, your hint that Thinlomien could be a wolf-consistent with your earlier analysis. A set-up gathering pace?

One sin you're not guilty of is bringing up the second Seer. I repeat, speculation on whether that role is or is not on Holby's innocent list can only help our enemies. The Seer is to be heard but not seen until s/he dies or reveals his/her identity. Roa, Nogrod, Jenny, take note!

However, I would tend to associate this transgression with inexperience (whether wolvish or not), so it's no surprise to me that Enca keeps clean.

Finally, voting record. As Eonwe said, the position of your vote was a good deal more dangerous than you make out in your analysis. You voted at the turning of the tide-a typical, expert suspicion-avoidance vote.

Then yesterday you went with the general feeling again by voting Valier. As an innocent I would have expected you to strike out in a more...well, interesting...way. But as a wolf...an excellent vote. It emanates haplessness. "Look at me, I don't know what I'm doing, I've lynched an innocent at this stage, a wolf would never knowingly do that..."

There. There's my indictment, and, jurors, you can take it or leave it.

++ENCAITARE

[Thinlómien]

Holby was the seer, but she had only two dreams. The possibility (mathematically) to catch even one wolf in two nights is very small. I think you shouldn't judge me or Naria on that basis. And if a seer doesn't know any of the wolves, she/he votes as randomly as anyone else (of course probably ruling out her/his known innocent). So please don't vote me only just because Holby didn't know I was innocent.

Now this:

Thanks to those who took out a wolf yesterDAY, I'm sure at least one fellow wolf voted for The Ka.

said by a seer I think must mean something. I think it means that Holby had dreamed about somebody of us bandwagoners and revealed he/she was a wolf. The bandwagoners are: LMP, Roa_Aoife, me, Enca and Jenny. LMP has been revealed innocent. I trust Roa, because she took THE Ka fatally into spotlight and has posted very meaningful posts. I know I'm an innocent, so I rule myself out. It leaves Enca and Jenny as possible wolves. I think I'll do some analysis on them. By gut feeling I'd rather vote for Enca, but this needs some thought.

I hope Holby wouldn't have given so differing opinions on the matter. Because:

Originally Posted by Holby

At this point: my main suspects are Naria and Thinlomien

Naria is no Ka-bandwagoner and I'm no wolf. This troubles me; you'll probably lynch me because I am on both "lists". I hope you don't. Besides that it is nasty for me, the village loses again one innocent.

If we follow Nogrod's theory that those who Holby suspected were innocent are now at the top of the wolves' killing list, we really should catch a wolf toDay. I tell you, it would be again a dead innocent and two wolves still around if you lynch me. I can't ask you not to analyse or accuse me; you have the right to do that, but please don't vote me (though you again of course have the right to do so), because lynching me would be folly.

EDIT: xposted with Anguirel

[Thinlómien]

Analysis on Enca
Day 1
#12 - moans Sleepy's death
#20 - says that little pressure is good for the quiet ones, but says people shouldn't be suspected solely of how much they talk
#45 - checks in, suspects she'll vote randomly
#92 - gets heated about Thinlomien's comments on her posting, asks Thinlomien what does she mean by "sound", makes a voting summary, agrees with LMP about THE Ka's self-defence and votes for THE Ka

Day 2
#120 - analyses Ka-bandwagon and says it is probable that there's one wolf, but can't say who
#145 - says we shouldn't concentrate on little things, jokes about Nogrod
#146 - agrees with Ang about the strangeness of Nogrod-bandwagon, slightly suspects Naria, defends loud people and thinks that Roa's argument about them is very suspicious, but still believes Roa innocent (early Ka-vote), thinks she will vote for WQ, defends her vote for Ka, suspects Thinlomien, Naria, Roa and Holby on Sleepy's posts, asks WQ, Gil and Valesse to speak up
#178 - has checked WQ's profile, says Gil's vote for Jenny is odd, suspects Valesse (self-defense-orientated), Gil (hasty and unexplained vote) and Valier (nonsense posts). Votes for Valier (she just echoes others), says she'll pay special attention to Gil and WQ the next day.

Day 3
#214 - says that doesn't understand Ang, makes a Holby-summary, suspects that Holby dreamed of a wolf-Thinlomien
#216 - clears her summary
#227 - would like to hear why Ang and Eonwe suspect her, says she'll probably vote for Thinlomien because Holby voted her also

That's it this far. I wouldn't find her particularly suspecting, though she's a bit too eager to analyse and make us look through lenses set by her and be helpful, if I didn't consider Holby's remarks about THE Ka-bandwagon and Ang's very convincing post and vote. Enca has been quite brief. I would like to hear more about her, though she's not one of the quitests.

innocents for sure: Thinlómien (I happened to read the PM telling me my role)
most probably innocents: Roa (put Ka into spotlight, has been meaningful)
probably innocents: Ang (if Ang was a wolf, Holby would have died earlier, besides, I don't think that wolf-Ang would have killed LMP just because he might be a tough opponent - I'm under the impression that Ang likes challenges), Jenny (I didn't find anything wolfish in her while doing my analysis), Gil-Galad (a wolf wouldn't surely be so careless)
can't say: Nogrod (has been over-aggressive, but remembering the last game, it's his playing style), Eonwe (voted quite stupidly and wolfishly in Day 1, but has been generally behaving quite well and unwolfishly - I think he's the next one who should be analysed)
my suspects: Enca, Naria (nonsense posting and being jumpy), Valesse (too little posting, is hiding too well)

[Thinlómien]

I will leave now and will be back before the voting time.

Please everyone considering voting for me during my absence: read my posts through and think again.

[Nogrod]

This is getting really interesting!

I only have a moment now, but will be back with "full effort" about two hours before the voting.

I was just wondering about the wolves killing tactics. LMP was, in the end, a clear choice: he's a smart player and thence a threat, and his getting the right one first, with kind of a single shot, is kind of seerlike. To add on that, it would look nicely like wolves showing, what happens to those who threat them. So they were running after a seer.

And the next day, they got one. Now was that just pure luck, or had they suspicions about Holby's being the seer? "The Holby archives" once again...

Why to ponder over these matters? I'd like to raise the question Thinlómien did earlier: are we facing very cunning wolves or "stupid" ones? That background thought will surely affect our judgements.

With the cunning line, I could be persuaded to back Ang's suspicion over Enca, with the less cunning line I could side the suspicions over Gil f.ex.

PS.

= NARIA: I don't want to actually come out and say what I am, but I will if need be.

This threat to reveal her identity seems quite dubious to me... as we seem to have better candidates for the seer's post around.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Thin

Eonwe (voted quite stupidly and wolfishly in Day 1, but has been generally behaving quite well and unwolfishly - I think he's the next one who should be analysed)

I actually thought of doing this last night (RL), since Eonwe seems to be slipping under the radar quite effectively.

Eonwe analysis
Day 1
1st post - nonsense
2nd - Says there is no real formula in WW, suggests waiting for the seer to announce some innocents, makes other remarks about gifted revealing themselves. Says we will be wrong in the lynchings from time to time. Votes LMP.
3rd - "Most everything about Werewolf is nonsense, my dear Lommy."
4th - "Take what you can get, I guess..."

Day 2
1st - Thinks of looking at beginning of Ka voters or near the end
2nd - Thinks Nogrod is uptight, analyzes Ka voters. Doesn't know about Roa, thinks Enca is suspicious because of vote placement. Slightly less suspicious of Thin. Not sure about Jenny.
3rd - Clarifies post 57.
4th - No longer suspects Thin, defends against Thin's posts again.
No vote

Day 3
1st - Suspects Enca for voting the Ka, but thinks that already suspecting her makes it easy to think she is twisting Holby's analysis. Says got caught up in RL, but would have voted for Enca yesterday

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Naria

Today's narration: When I first read it, I didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Then I re-read it, I know what I am and anyone that re-read it would also know. I am trying to save a now ordo Valier, and Thinlo keeps me from doing that. Valier then dies and I say "you fool" to Thinlo and punch her(Thinlo making Valier's death immenent in the voting).

I just happened to come over Sleepy's narration too. And believe me Naria: I didn't remember that it was you who had analyzed it earlier (I remembered it being Jenny)!

And I must say, that the story really could be read in many ways - as is the purpose of it.

What I can see there is as follows:

Naria and Thinlómien are clearly one against another, both referring to each other as fools.

Naria seemed moved enough to help her, in fact she began to take a few steps forward only to get pulled back by Thinlomien, "She is our foe you fool,

Grimacing through the pain Naria looked hard at Thinlomien, "You fool!" she muttered sending a hard punch to her newly recieved wound causing her to faint.

Now it's quite clear that Thin should be acting on behalf of Valier's death in the narration, that anyhow was the case in the game yesterday. So why would Sleepy go on underlining that Thin is a villain - if she'd be one? So I mean, aren't you now reading a bit too much, and too easy on Sleepy's text? I remember you punching me about me not giving enough credit to Sleepy's writing! And now you try to imply, that that piece of narration clears you and makes Thin a wolf???

If we go on subtleties, might we also point out that:

Naria seemed moved enough to help her

So seemed, but maybe really wasn't...

But really. Can't say one way or another. Many ways to interpret this one...

Then there is this one about Jenny. Too little time for that now, but Jenny could herself elaborate, whether she had basically disliked killing WQ on grounds of not-posting, or were you ready to go for it? That could give us grounds to see this as significant or insignificant:

all of a sudden Witch_Queen let out a scream, everyone turned to her and watched in shock as she began to vomit blood. It seemed to go on forever causing JennyHallu to throw up (luckily it wasn't blood in her case)

But I can't see this as as important thing as that Thin vs. Naria -thing

X-posted from #240 onwards...

[Valesse]

Alright, well my time toDay has run out, how very short it has been. Hopefully I have slaked some of the village's want for my words, though I doubt I did enough to satisfy everyone.

I'm forced to be brief now.
Due to Holby's suspicion, Roa's point, and various other people's remarks as well as my own (constantly interupted) musing (seriously, do you think I want to be torn away from the computer?) I'm quite sure to vote for

++ Thinlómien

** Cross posted with Thinlo.

[Encaitare]

You make a couple of decent points for your defense, Lommy, but not all of them are so valid.

Originally Posted by Thinlomien

If I was a wolf, would I have talked all the Day 1, however bored I was? Wouldn'ät a wolf try not to get so much attention?

I don’t know anything about your WW-playing history, so I don’t know how much experience you have. An inexperienced player might have talked on and on.

If I was a wolf, wouldn't it have been wise for me to vote someone else than Valier or Nogrod yesterday?

No. Because allowing a triple-lynch to happen would have screamed “I’m a wolf!” to the entire village.

If I was a wolf, why would I have got frustrated with Eonwe on d1 when he voted totally randomly? Don't wolves like people who don't bother to analyse

I’m sure they do. But a wolf wouldn’t want the others to know that s/he was okay with that random vote.

I sincerely hope I’m right that you’re a wolf, Lommy.

++ Thinlomien

(What ever should be do with Gil, by the way? It would be horrible to see another situation like with WQ, where she was silent yet innocent. But Gil’s absence and nonsense vote are really quite ridiculous.)

(Crossposted with Valesse and Nogrod.)

[Thinlómien]

I don’t know anything about your WW-playing history, so I don’t know how much experience you have. An inexperienced player might have talked on and on.

This is my fourth game, but you're right; it doesn't rule out me being stupid. But a stupid ordo. Not a stupid wolf.

I’m sure they do. But a wolf wouldn’t want the others to know that s/he was okay with that random vote.

Why didn't the wolves then say that!?! You're unlogical and wolvish, Enca.

My plea: don't kill another innocent today! Don't kill me. I'm just an ordinary victim.

If you need explanation for my vote, see my post #231.