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#1 |
Itinerant Songster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Edge of Faerie
Posts: 7,066
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Formendacil, I acceed to your well made points until they are proven false by yet greater efforts at erudition.
![]() Eonwe, I appreciate your opinion, but I need some evidence before I'll make an alteration. Eru Morgoth Manwë Varda Tulkas Aulë Lorien - - - Ancalagon Ungoliant Glaurung Smaug - Sauron - Witch King of Angmar - Gandalf the White Saruman Gandalf the Grey Balrog Blue Istari Radagast - Túrin Turambar - Fëanor - Finrod Felagund - Glorfindel - - Ent Troll - Shelob - Beleg - Elf Uruk hai Warg Human Dwarf Orc Gollum Goblin Hobbit Spider |
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#2 |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 6,003
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I suppose you assume Tolkien is extraneous to Middle-earth, otherwise you would have started your list with him?
![]() And the eagles would be placed where?
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
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#3 |
Energetic Essence
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Just got a question. What about the other Vala?? Where's Mandos and Yavanna?? Because they are of greater power then Lorien. If I'm correct, Yavanna is the second highest Valier, is she not? And Aulë, Ulmo and Mandos were of all greater power then Tulkas.
As for Hobbit, I think they deserve a place higher then Goblin's. After all, Bullroarer did invent a game after knocking off the head of a goblin. ![]() I believe that Ungoliant deserves a place higher up. After all, she did almost kill Morgoth. I can't think of anything else other than the remianig Valar (Vana, Nessa, etc.) and they all do deserve a high place. They are Valar. Oh, wait!! I've just remembered a few Maiar. Eonwe, Osse and Uinen all deserve a place in there for being a few of the Maiar named. Wow, that's a lot!! Well, take what you want. After all, it is your list.
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I'm going to buy you a kitty, I'm going to let you fall in love with the kitty, and one cold, winter night, I'm going to steal into your house and punch you in the face! Fenris Wolf
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#4 |
Eagle of the Star
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
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Earendil slew Ancalagon the black, Thorondor marred Melkor's face, Echtelion killed the lord of the balrongs, Eonwe was the mightiest in arms in all Arda, Hurin was the "mightiest of the warriors of mortal Men". In the second prophecy of Mandos, Turin is said to kill Melkor, so let's give him some more credit
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#5 |
Byronic Brand
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The 1590s
Posts: 2,778
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Oh, this is a real sweetshop of a thread. You know it's bad for you, but you have to indulge in it nonetheless...
Putting Turin above Feanor is nothing short of preposterous! I'd put him back where he was, on about Beleg's level. Some reference to him being Adanedhel and Elf-like in prowess wouldn't justify him being cabable of beating Feanor in his wrath, who faced battalions of Balrogs. And bringing up the Dagor Dagorath is just eschatological and odd. Our description of it is vague and mucked up. I'd also put Maedhros and Fingolfin, in that order, above Feanor (though admitting Fingolfin's place hurts); though a genius and a great artist, I don't think Feanor was necessarily the best warrior of the Eldar-except with words and will-are we factoring that in? Hurin I would put...above Glorfindel but below Finrod. Actually, Beleg should be above Glorfindel too. Glorfindel had pretty hair and was brave and nice, but Beleg was the best tracker in the world, could find his way around the Girdle, turned up to the Nirnaeth and survived, and could definitely have beaten the majority of Elves. Remember he was a swordsman as well as an archer...
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Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter -Il Lupo Fenriso |
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#6 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Muddy-earth
Posts: 1,297
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And where is Tom Bombadil on the list?
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[B]THE LORD OF THE GRINS:THE ONE PARODY....A PARODY BETTER THAN THE RINGS OF POWER. |
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#7 | |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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Let me crack open a can of worms. I wonder where and indeed why Ungoliant should be on this list at all. I would argue that she is incredibly difficult to place as she is possibly 'outside' any kind of hierarchy.
Quote:
But she had disowned her Master, desiring to be mistress of her own lust, taking all things to herself to feed her emptiness - she is the servant of Melkor which obviously means he has been able to enlist her, but note, he was unable to control her, as she was able to leave his service. He must then win her back with a lie. she was loath to dare the perils of Aman and the power of the dreadful Lords, and she would not stir from her hiding. Therefore Melkor said to her: 'Do as I bid; and if thou hunger still when all is done, then I will give thee whatsoever thy lust may demand. Yea, with both hands.' - This suggests that Ungoliant was afraid of the Valar and the Elves, but does this mean they were more powerful than her? Perhaps she feared what they could do en masse? Or maybe she even feared to upset them, knowing she was an 'outsider'? Or was this just fear as she wished to be left alone to live as she needed, feeding off Light? Ungoliant also clearly thinks that Melkor has the potential to defeat the rest of the Valar; maybe she was convinced by him as she wished rather to be on the winning than losing side if he was to defeat them? Anyway, in terms of power hierarchies, it suggests some fluidity and ambiguity, certainly at that point in the history of Ea. I think Ungoliant is too difficult to place in such a structure; there is much evidence that she was from outside Ea, and as such was (is?) an independent being. If we take her as a natural complement to Eru, the Darkness or Void to his Light, then we could even see her as comparable in power. ![]() Well, I've finished my main course of worm pie, now for some pudding. I think I'll open another can of nice, sweet, juicy worms... Where does Tom Bombadil sit on this list? Not to mention Goldberry... Nice thread, much potential for fisticuffs and duelling. And worms. ![]()
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Gordon's alive!
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#8 | |
Wight
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 166
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"For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me." Dominus Anulorum TolkienGateway - large Tolkien encyclopedia. |
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#9 |
Wight
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 166
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Some thoughts:
* Melkor/Morgoth is a difficult one. If you view the original Melkor, he's on the right place in your hierarchy; but would you view Morgoth at the end of the FA, he would have to end up far lower. * Ungoliant should be far higher (she ensnared Morgoth!) * the WiKi between Saruman and Gandalf the Grey * Túrin below Fëanor * Ents above named Elves * Shelob Where would we put Tom B.?
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"For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me." Dominus Anulorum TolkienGateway - large Tolkien encyclopedia. |
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