Who or What is Tom Bombadil?

[narfforc]

I always find it fascinating when the question of Bombadil comes up, that no-one asks who Goldberry is, or more precise her mother The River-woman. All three of these characters are enigmatic, when, where and who are words that are used if mentioning their names. The River-woman was supposed to live in a deep pool of The Withywindle. Now I know of no other being than one of the spirits (Ainur), which lives under water, could Goldberry be the daughter of Uinen?. If The River-woman was human, then there is a good chance Goldberry would also be. This would mean Goldberry being a wife for a fleeting moment. Could The River-woman be Elven, for Goldberry is described as a young elf-queen. I think all three are spirits, let me quote from The Silmarillion:

With the Valar came other spirits whose being also began before the World, of the same order as the Valar but of less degree. These are the Maiar, the people of the Valar, and their servents and helpers. Their number is not known to the Elves, and few have names in any of the tongues of the Children of Iluvatar; for though it is otherwise in Aman, in Middle-earth the Maiar have seldom appeared in form visible to Elves and Men.

Seldom does not mean never, and Bombadil came first anyway, and alone. Other than the Five Istari which are named, there were others who came with them which may have also been Maiar, another thing the Elves knew not the number of. The Valaraukar/Balrogs (Gothmog) and Ungoliant are named as Maiar. I believe Bombadil was one of the Ainur, of what degree I know not, yet he is called the Master by Goldberry. Does Master in this sense mean in control, if so of what. Could Eru have sent Iarwain Ben-adar to guard the Secret Fire/Flame Imperishable at the very creation of Ea?. Does not the words Ea, the World that Is not also reflect Goldberry's He Is answer to the hobbits, when asked who Tom Bombadil was. This could also answer the question of why Tom was there before Melkor, when the world as such was still sleeping. Gandalf feared that Tom would fall Last as he was the First, why was he the first. The riddle of who Bombadil is, can only be answered by why he is.

[Legolas]

always find it fascinating when the question of Bombadil comes up, that no-one asks who Goldberry is,

This came up on the previous page, actually! Here it is, in case you missed it.

Here's what was said, by Bethberry:

On the other hand, does the problem or enigma lie only with Tom? I find it very interesting how often people have difficulty understanding or accepting Tom, yet very few seem to ask who or what Goldberry is.

Do readers have an easier time accepting a female mythic earth character than a male one? Or is it that Frodo's infatuation with Goldberry provides an adequate and understandable explanation of her function? (Why is it that she can control rain, but not snow, for instance?)

My response was...

Even if Goldberry's nature was as unexplained as Tom, I don't think she would have attracted the amount of speculation Tom has. The point with Tom is not that he is male, but that his physical acts (and subsequent conclusions drawn about his mentality) show that he is quite an oddity - he skips about through the woods carelessly, and is completely unmoved by the Ring? He's not just an unexplained character. He's an unexplained character that leaps out and thumps the reader in the eyeball.

[narfforc]

Maybe instead of saying no-one I should had said almost no-one. The percentage of Tom watchers to those of Goldberry is now about 99%, unless I missed anymore, however thanks for pointing out one of the few. Of course I am talking over a long period of time since the books were first published, Tom does get more attention than Goldberry and her mother. There is a fascination with people trying to figure out who or what he is, and completely forgetting the other two.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by narfforc

Of course I am talking over a long period of time since the books were first published, Tom does get more attention than Goldberry and her mother. There is a fascination with people trying to figure out who or what he is, and completely forgetting the other two.

Well, it appears such people are in good company, for, after all, Gandalf appears to forget about Goldberry when he says at the end:

Originally Posted by Gandalf

But if you would know, I am turning aside soon. I am going to have a long talk with Bombadil: such a talk as I have not had in all my time. He is a moss-gatherer, and I have been a stone doomed to rolling. But my rolling days are ending, and now we shall have much to say to one another.

Of course, this could simply be Tolkien's attempt to try to integrate Bombadil a little more into the story. After all, he and Goldberry did get their own book, so to speak.

hmm. Maybe I should go back to my fey avatar which resembles the images on the cover of Tales from the Perilous Realm. hmm.

[yavanna II]

I've long ago decided for myself that Tom Bombadil is the very spirit of Arda--Arda in a physical form that can walk, talk, and be like a Kid of Eru in the sense that he's almost looking like them.

"Eldest, that's what I am ... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn ... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside."

[narfforc]

Originally Posted by yavanna II

I've long ago decided for myself that Tom Bombadil is the very spirit of Arda--Arda in a physical form that can walk, talk, and be like a Kid of Eru in the sense that he's almost looking like them.

"Eldest, that's what I am ... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn ... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside."

Yes I agree in a way, the more I think of the history of Bombadil, the more I am convinced that he is either the Guardian of the Secret Fire/Flame Imperishable or he is the physical embodiment it. Why else would he come First, when there was nothing else in Arda apart from the Flame that Eru had placed there.

[davem]

Originally Posted by yavanna II

I've long ago decided for myself that Tom Bombadil is the very spirit of Arda--Arda in a physical form that can walk, talk, and be like a Kid of Eru in the sense that he's almost looking like them.

"Eldest, that's what I am ... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn ... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside."

Of course, this would imply that Arda is in some way conscious - specifically self-conscious. It is alive, has memory & the capacity for (rational???) thought.

I'm reminded of Legolas' words (The Ring goes South):

'That is true,' said Legolas. 'But the Elves of this land were of a race strange to us of the silvan folk, and the trees and the grass do not now remember them. Only I hear the stones lament them: deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us; but they are gone. They are gone. They sought the Havens long ago.

Maybe Legolas is speaking literally. Which brings to mind a recent post of Aiwendil's on The Hobbit CbC thread.

[drigel]

and your quoting brings this one to mind, Davem:

Aragorn in FotR: 'There are many evil and unfriendly things in the world that have little love for those that go on two legs, and yet are not in league with Sauron, but have purposes of their own. Some have been in this world longer than he.'

dont forget cruel Caradhras

"...longer than Sauron" is significant, almost Bombadillian.

perhaps there are just as many good and friendly things in the world as well

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Originally Posted by yavanna II

I've long ago decided for myself that Tom Bombadil is the very spirit of Arda--Arda in a physical form that can walk, talk, and be like a Kid of Eru in the sense that he's almost looking like them.

"Eldest, that's what I am ... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn ... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside."

How is your answer different from the second option of the poll?

Just asking...