orcs and goblins- what's the difference??? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Thalion · 03-31-2006, 01:58 PM

Orcs and Goblins are the same thing...

Tolkien changed the word in LOTR because the Hobbit was written for children who would need a reference to what he was talking about...but when it came time to write the LOTR, he used Orc because he didn't want readers to have that "fairy-tale" misconception about his goblins being little hob-goblin, trickster type characters...he wanted more of an understanding that they were a perversion of Elves and evil, foul things; the word Goblin does not portray that because it already had been used much in fairie before The Hobbit and people had preconceptions as to what Goblins were...

While it may be easy to think of Orcs as bigger, badder and meaner than smaller Goblins, they are in fact the same creatures, only described just slightly differnetly in the LOTR and the Hobbit because the latter was written for children...(additionally, the Hobbit was written first and Tolkien hadn't incorporated all of his previous ideas concerning Middle Earth into it yet)

deal_with_it · 03-31-2006, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thalion

Orcs and Goblins are the same thing...

Tolkien changed the word in LOTR because the Hobbit was written for children who would need a reference to what he was talking about...but when it came time to write the LOTR, he used Orc because he didn't want readers to have that "fairy-tale" misconception about his goblins being little hob-goblin, trickster type characters...he wanted more of an understanding that they were a perversion of Elves and evil, foul things; the word Goblin does not portray that because it already had been used much in fairie before The Hobbit and people had preconceptions as to what Goblins were...

While it may be easy to think of Orcs as bigger, badder and meaner than smaller Goblins, they are in fact the same creatures, only described just slightly differnetly in the LOTR and the Hobbit because the latter was written for children...(additionally, the Hobbit was written first and Tolkien hadn't incorporated all of his previous ideas concerning Middle Earth into it yet)

Yeah thats true, Being for kids, thats probably why the dwarves were so wimpy and there wasn't much in the way of battle scenes

Elu Ancalime · 03-31-2006, 02:40 PM

And because of this name switch, some physical elements were implimented. Everytime in The Hobbit when orcs are dealt with, they are orcs of the mountains, ie goblins. So as we know Saurons Uruks were developed more than this survivors of the Second and First age, these older divisions would appear as stouter and more "elvish" in a sense. Also, in a general non-Tolkien aspect, when one thinks of goblin, they usualy think of a smaller creature, right? (um, right?) While Uruks of Mordor and Isenguard are more Mannish and Humanoid.
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03-31-2006, 01:58 PM	#1
Thalion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Tol Morwen Posts: 82	Orcs and Goblins are the same thing... Tolkien changed the word in LOTR because the Hobbit was written for children who would need a reference to what he was talking about...but when it came time to write the LOTR, he used Orc because he didn't want readers to have that "fairy-tale" misconception about his goblins being little hob-goblin, trickster type characters...he wanted more of an understanding that they were a perversion of Elves and evil, foul things; the word Goblin does not portray that because it already had been used much in fairie before The Hobbit and people had preconceptions as to what Goblins were... While it may be easy to think of Orcs as bigger, badder and meaner than smaller Goblins, they are in fact the same creatures, only described just slightly differnetly in the LOTR and the Hobbit because the latter was written for children...(additionally, the Hobbit was written first and Tolkien hadn't incorporated all of his previous ideas concerning Middle Earth into it yet) __________________ "But a new day is come. Here I will stay at peace, and renounce name and kin; and so I will put my shadow behind me, or at the least not lay it upon those that I love."

03-31-2006, 02:40 PM	#3
Elu Ancalime Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Anador Posts: 476	And because of this name switch, some physical elements were implimented. Everytime in The Hobbit when orcs are dealt with, they are orcs of the mountains, ie goblins. So as we know Saurons Uruks were developed more than this survivors of the Second and First age, these older divisions would appear as stouter and more "elvish" in a sense. Also, in a general non-Tolkien aspect, when one thinks of goblin, they usualy think of a smaller creature, right? (um, right?) While Uruks of Mordor and Isenguard are more Mannish and Humanoid. ________ Human Papillomavirus (Hpv) Advice Last edited by Elu Ancalime; 03-03-2011 at 11:34 PM.

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