Relative Powers

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by the phantom

There's no need to go further than that, Sauce. I think raw power is what we're looking for, not virtues.

As I said, I am not talking about morality or virtue here, but innate qualities and failings.

Although the list may have started out as "who could whup whom", lmp when pressed accepted that we are looking here at qualities other than "raw power", in terms of physical strength. And, if that is the case, I do not see why an innate mental weakness such as Feanor's rash nature should not be taken into account in the same way that we would take an innate physical weakness into account.

It depends, I suppose, on exactly what we mean by "power". But, if we are looking at a character in the round and considering spiritual and mental, as well as physical, strength, then surely Feanor's mental weakness, his rash and hot-headed nature, must be taken into account. It hampered his ability best to achieve what he wanted to achieve and was therefore something that weakened his overall "power" in the broadest sense.

The fact that Morgoth "targetted" him is a fair point, but there must have been some mental weakness there for him to have fallen for it in such a big way. Indeed, that was no doubt one of the main reasons why Morgoth identified him as a means to further his plans. Morgoth was, in effect, playing to Feanor's weaknesses.

And while it is true that a similar failings may be seen in a number of other characters, particularly other Noldor, in no one was it as pronounced, or indeed as influential, as in Feanor. And to the extent that other characters show similar mental weaknesses, then these should be taken into consideration when assessing, in broad terms, their "power". Turin is, I think, a good example here.

And one final point. Even if we are just looking at "who could whup whom", Feanor's mental wekaness still plays a role. It is something that a clever foe, perhaps one such as Galadriel, would have been able to use against him.

[the phantom]

Where are you getting this that Feanor is mentally weak, Sauce? That's one of those things that always gets thrown around about him because it sounds good. But in reality, from what I've read, he was rather strong mentally.

Are you saying he was weak because he was influenced by Melkor? That's hardly good reasoning. That's like saying the strongest man in the world is physically weak because he can't lift a mountain.

The two trees were the most amazing of the Valar's works, so Melkor resolved to destroy them. The Silmarils were the most amazing of the Elves' works, so Melkor resolved to steal them. Feanor was the most amazing Elf, so Melkor resolved to mar him. It's as simple as that. Only the Valar could have prevented Melkor from achieving his goals. Only they had the power.

But instead of hindering Melkor, they helped him by giving Feanor a punishment (temporary banishment from Tuna) that, as Tolkien said, made the lies of Melkor appear to be true. Given the fact that the only beings powerful enough to undo Melkor's lies instead increased them, is it any wonder Feanor remained stained by Melkor, and that his father's death at Melkor's hands and the theft of his treasure pushed him over the edge?

The circumstances of Feanor's fall were extreme. His fall was the result of a precise series of awful events orchestrated (in Melkor's case) or at least not stopped (in the Valar's case) by beings with greater power than his own. And the fact is, Feanor's fall had to happen in such a way, because he was not weak willed or weak minded. Only events exactly as they happened could have broken him.