Survivor: The Second Age

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by the phantom

I can't find fault in your pro-Celebrian vote, Sauce, so you can rest easy on that.

Whew! I am relieved ...

Originally Posted by TP

Now answer me this- since the Ring thing would have happened even without him, how can you possibly justify saying that he caused it?

Did you even bother reading my earlier argumentation? The whole point of Sauron's Ring scheme was to gain control over the peoples of ME, especially the Elves. Had he not been able to persuade Celebrimbor and his team to create the other Rings of Power, it is unlikely that he would have gone through with it. And, even had he done so, it is likely that, without their involvement, the One Ring would have been less powerful than it was. Celebrimbor's pride, greed and gullibility was a direct contributor to the mess that prevailed at the end of the Third Age. One which, ultimately, required Eru's direct intervention to sort out.

Originally Posted by The 1,000 Reader

Finally, going into the west (giving up in a sense) doesn't make one a survivor.

Neither, then, does getting butchered as a result of one's pride, greed and gullibility and ending up on an Orcish battle standard ...

[Lalaith]

Who here among us has never had the temptation to rewrite history - just a little - in favour of those innocents that were wronged?

To have saved the noble Germanicus from poisoning, and the Roman empire from the raddled bag of depravities that was his brother Tiberius...

To have stolen into the Tower and smuggled out the two Little Princes...
...or rescued poor, clever, shy Lady Jane Grey from the block, and taken her back to the safe obscurity she craved...

...or to administer a TB jab to a certain young Londoner in the early 1800s, and thus add to the world's greatest poetry the splendour of a mature Keats....

Now we have here, on the Downs, the chance to right a great wrong. Tar-Miriel would, but for the machinations of Sauron and his lap-dog Ar-Pharazon, been a very great Queen, a wise and just ruler of Numenor. I say we crown her Queen of Survivor instead, and allow the viewers a small glimpse what might have been.
++TAR MIRIEL