Survivor: The Second Age

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by me

If Tar-Miriel would've done something it would've been written.

Originally Posted by Ff

Because Tolkien always finished everything he wrote.

Oh, please. I'm well aware he didn't finish everything, but he certainly managed the major details of stories he wrote. For instance, he didn't leave the whole bit about Turin slaying Glaurung out of the Turin story and think "Oh, I'll get to it later". He took care of the main characters and deeds.

Now, Queen Tar-Miriel aiding the Faithful and doing brave deeds behind Ar-Phar's back- that is a major character doing a major deed, and thus it would not have been left out of the story if it had happened.

Originally Posted by me

You can't vote for someone based on a guess that they did something brave simply because you want a female to win. That is quite obviously sexist.

Originally Posted by Ff

And you aren't biased at all.

No, I'm not. Picking a Survivor Champion based on qualifications is no more biased than hiring someone because they are the most qualified. On the other hand, hiring someone who isn't the most qualified because they are male/female/white/black is biased, as is voting for a less qualified Survivor Champion.

This isn't just a game- this is a test of ethics that will have a massive bearing on the rest of your life. Sure, it sounds like a simple thing to pick a bad candidate today, but next thing you know you'll beating up little old ladies and stealing lunch money from children.

Stop, before it's too late!

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by the phantom

next thing you know you'll beating up little old ladies and stealing lunch money from children.

Add auto theft and speeding to that and I think we have the makings of a right good time!

Seriously though, would you be comparing Celebrimbor to old ladies and children, then? *looks innocent*

[the phantom]

would you be comparing Celebrimbor to old ladies and children, then?

The comparison might fit, in the sense that, like little old ladies and children, Celebrimbor is being wronged and is unable to defend himself (by virtue of the fact that he does not exist).

So that further explains my point. Today, you are wronging a defenseless fictional character- tomorrow, real life defenseless people. It's a slippery slope.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by the phantom

The comparison might fit, in the sense that, like little old ladies and children, Celebrimbor is being wronged and is unable to defend himself (by virtue of the fact that he does not exist).

And the same can be said for Tar-Miriel and Celebrian, depending on one's viewpoint. They're all fictional and, frankly, none of them are the most deeply drawn characters, so most of what we think of them comes from our own preconceived notions about what makes a preferable Survivor champ. It's all about what tinted glasses you're wearing. None of this is concrete, like little old ladies and children, it's all subjective conjecture and imagination. Personally I am not voting for Celebrimbor because he leaves the least to the imagination. That's my prefered shade of glasses: that the character who I can best make up my own pleasant fantasy about gets my vote. Such is the world of fiction and games compared to the real one.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Actually, I'd sort of like to see a tie. I wonder what Formy would do....

I'll take a stab at it. He'll do like this:

++TAR-MÍRIEL

and say that it's his thread.

Okay, okay...he'll do only the first part.

But why Tar-Miríel? Because Celebrían, respectable though she is, is not exactly a Survivor in a sense. Not that we can blame her for giving up on life, but we have a game to consider.

Celebrimbor, while deserving credit for the creation of the rings, was in some way just following the footsteps of his grandfather: he created something grand, then died because of it. Mind that I don't have anything against Feanor...or maybe I do.

NO ONE else in Middle-earth history had a life similar to our dear tragic queen's. And she died holding on (quite literally) to what she believed in. Beat that!

Yess we could, preciouss.

I know, Gollum, but you're NOT Second Age. Now scram!

[Formendacil]

Actually, the FIRST thing he'll do is declare voting over.

He will then leave the thread to percolate until tomorrow afternoon, when he will have time to properly analyse the Tolkienity of the votes.

Although the voting is CLOSED, and no further votes will be counted, I should mention that I haven't decided yet how to deal with the tie...

Meanwhile, you may return to your discussions of "what Formendacil will do?"

[Lhunardawen]

I maintain my stand and rest my case.

Besides, as I see it, there's no tie for you to deal with.

[The 1,000 Reader]

Originally Posted by the phantom

The comparison might fit, in the sense that, like little old ladies and children, Celebrimbor is being wronged and is unable to defend himself (by virtue of the fact that he does not exist)

Just like what happened to the Witch-King a few pages back. Oh well, at least it's an accomplishment that he got to the finals when he didn't even do anything in the Second Age.



To put my words into orcish form, "What's wrong with you people?! You're voting for two girls that was pretty much a slave and had the **** beaten out of 'er? Vote for the elf lord who made the three rings! At least he did something."