The Recapture of north-east Beleriand

[Anguirel]

Ah, Aiwendil, you make an incisive point but one that I lack the philosophy to field properly.

I am a flawed and partial reader, and I accept what is most satisfying to me, regardless of veracity of accounts.

It's interesting to ponder, Macalaure, that, had Tolkien, in a hypothetical Letter #38000, clearly said "Without the treachery of Men, Maedhros would have won the Fifth Battle", or the reverse, you might be inclined to accept it; but here in a (fairly solidly) canonical passage you are able to claim that the information can be dismissed as mere Elf focalisation.

So in this case a bit of bleak factual marginalia apparently has more power than a dramatically powerful and moving tragic passage. Peculiar. Some would react by dismissing the letter too, as an author imposing rights of arbitration he does not have. I have sympathy for that view; by allowing his work to be read an author submits its interpretation into the hands of his readers. But it doesn't get us very far, producing an answer of "this might, or might not be the case."

Since I admire the portrayal of Maedhros' Union, therefore, I'm going to accept this information as being valid. Another might prefer to try and dismiss it.

As for the reasons which undermined the Union, and your citing of the Oath and poor innocent Celegorm and Curufin-nonsense! It was all the fault of those dratted love birds Beren and Luthien who thoroughly messed up Nargothrond-Himring-Doriath diplomatic relations...

[Macalaure]

Since I admire the portrayal of Maedhros' Union, therefore, I'm going to accept this information as being valid.

And so do I.
The passage you quoted above simply slipped from my mind and the speculation that followed in my last post was not meant that seriously...

Though I still wonder the more why Tolkien regarded Maedhros' actions as so wrong, when they wouldn't have changed the outcome.

[Formendacil]

Perhaps it's a fault of my aging memory... and the lack of a Silmarillion copy close at hand, but does anyone here recall if it is said that the treachery of Ulfang began BEFORE or AFTER Maedhros retook the Gap (sidenote... the Gap of Rohan is clearly not the only franchise of the chain in Middle-Earth).

If Ulfang and the others went over to Morgoth AFTER Maedhros retook the Gap, ie. after Morgoth was alerted to what Maedhros is up to, then it is possible to assume that he did NOT, in fact, know Maedhros' plans, in which case Macalaure is probably correct in stating that retaking the Gap was probably a fatal error.

On the other hand, if Ulfang and his crew had already betrayed Maedhros, then we're left with the "well Ulfang could have told him anyway".

[Macalaure]

Formendacil, I didn't say it was a fatal error, I wonder why Tolkien does.

Here's the passage from the Silmarillion:

But Maedhros made trial of his strength too soon, ere his plans were fullwrought; and [...] Morgoth was warned of the uprising of the Eldar and the Elf-friends, and took counsel against them. Many spies and workers of treason he sent forth among them, as he was better able now to do, for the faithless Men of his secret allegiance were yet deep in the secrets of the sons of Feanor.

So Ulfang was already in league with Morgoth. Either he had not told Morgoth until then, or Morgoth didn't listen/believe him.

Which makes me think:
If Nargothrond and Doriath were in the Union, would Maedhros have asked the Easterlings to join at all?

[Anguirel]

I think he would have, yes. Any help against Morgoth was welcome, and the Sons of Feanor were tolerant and admiring in general of any men who fought Orcs.

One crucial thing to remember is that recruiting the Easterlings was by every code of morality, honour, and tolerance the just and right thing to do; and that it was rewarded by the loyalty of Bor's sons, at least, who are too often forgotten-Easterlings as heroic as any of the Edain-"...Ulwarth and Ulfast were slain by the sons of Bor, ere they themselves were slain."

"Ere they themselves were slain." Presumably their people with them. Think of the sacrifice that entails. They didn't have beautiful names or countenances, but they fell as valiantly as Hurin's folk at the Fen of Serech. They ought to be remembered with more honour. Who knows; perhaps even some of Uldor's men resisted their lord's treachery.

Even with hindsight, the acceptance of Easterling aid was a noble and correct act. And had it been rejected, defeat would have been equally inevitable. The numbers the Swarthy Men lent to the Union were surely vital.

[Macalaure]

I think he would have, yes.

I think so, too. There was a bond between Fëanor's Sons and the Easterlings even before the Union was in planning. And they proved faithful until then.

And had it been rejected, defeat would have been equally inevitable.

Here I'm not so sure. I don't want to spoil the rememberance of the faithful Easterlings, but at least after the new men from the east arrived, they were severely outnumbered. Below the line there were more of them on Morgoth's side than on Maedhros'. Of course, hadn't Maedhros asked them, maybe they still would have fought on Morgoth's side.

Getting back to the blasphemy: A few lines before "Yet neither by wolf..." Tolkien writes: "Some have said that even then the Eldar might have won the day, had all their hosts proved faithful."
Some have said? Might have won? Maybe it's not that certain at all.