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Old 04-10-2006, 03:27 PM   #1
Smaug
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What we see when great multitudes of smoke start to drift out of Mount Doom during the War of the Ring, is another classic example of an evil conception on Sauron's part. This is a slightly re-occurring theme, since Melkor did the exact same thing when he was being assailed in his fortress of Angband by the forces of Fëanor. It can be viewed as an attempt to strike fear into the opponent (a physiological weapon as A_Brandybuck rightly mentioned) and to act as a smoke screen to avoid the eyes of spies and as a way for the armies of Mordor to enter and leave the Black Land undetected so as to gain an upper-advantage on the enemy who would be at unawares. Maybe the fires of Orodruin were in great tumult as they were being utilised as a source of developing Sauron's armies (e.g. making armour and weaponry with the fires it provided).
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Old 04-20-2006, 11:15 PM   #2
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While that can be argued, I don't believe that we know this for certain. After all, he was in communication and cahoots with Sauron.~Sardy
I am going to side with Lal here and say that there is actually much evidence to show Saruman was planning something more than just being Sauron's puppet. Now Sauron had Saruman right where he wanted and was using Saruman to further his own plans, but Saruman believed he by doing this he would be in control and be able to Rule and Order:
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A new power is rising. Against it the old allies and policies will not avail us at all. There is no hope left in Elves or dying Numenor. This then is one choice before you, before us. We may join with that Power. It would be wise, Gandalf. There is hope that way. Its victory is at hand, and there will be rich reward for those that aided it. As the Power grows, its proved friends will also grow; and the Wise, such as you and I, may with patience come at last to direct its courses, to control it. We can bid our time, we can keep our thoughts in our hearts, deploring maybe evils done by the way, but approving the high and ultimate purpose: Knowledge; Rule; Order; all the things that we have so far striven in vain to accomplish, hindered rather than helped by our weak or idle friends. There need not be, there would not be, any change in our designs, only in our means.~The Council of Elrond
Saruman believes that their task and why they were sent to Middle-earth can be completed, they just need to change their tactics so to say. Saruman is the perfect example of the "ends and means," kind of like does the means justify the end. Saruman thinks, oh well if we have to do and commit evil along the way, no biggy, our ultimate purpose and our reason sent to ME will be completed. Saruman thinks he's setting Sauron up, when in fact he's just fooled and turned down the wrong path.

Now I guess onto the question. Can the quote be taken more symbolically? As in if "there's smoke rising" meaning actions stirred up in Mordor again? Perhaps it's more of a metaphorical thing...or maybe both. There's actual physical smoke and then the though of Mordor is rebuilding, Sauron is back and is stirring up again.
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Old 04-22-2006, 02:44 PM   #3
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I like looking the Middle-earth's biological and geographical phenomenons from a scientific point of view. In a way it makes Arda feel more real if its laws of nature even occasionally correspond with ours. But still, it's a world where eagles can carry people and dead men can be summoned to a war, so many things are explained by the fact that it is a story.

Lalwendë brought up a question (or three of them ) about Sauron's controll over Orodruin. I think Mount Doom starting to act up again was more due to the kind of magic that you see in Middle-earth than what Sauron would physically have done to the mountain. Also, as has already been mentioned, the active volcano was one sort of a weapon. I think the volcanic fumes that it belched were intentional and useful by themselves rather than byproducts of something Sauron was doing by using the mountain or just a convenient coincidence.

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Originally Posted by Smaug
Maybe the fires of Orodruin were in great tumult as they were being utilised as a source of developing Sauron's armies (e.g. making armour and weaponry with the fires it provided).
From what I've read, I think that Mount Doom was a composite volcano of some sort. Its lava was rhyolitic ie. it contained a lot of oxidants (SiO2), its temperature was between 600 and 900 celsius degrees and hence it wasn't very runny. Such lava could easily block its eruption channel causing the pressure inside a volcano to grow. Therefore the volcano could erupt explosively throwing huge hot clouds of ash, lava, rocks and gases in the air.

If Sauron would have made other ways to channel lava out of the mountain, I think it would rather have had a soothing than upsetting effect on the volcano.

A volcano like Mount Doom could easily have caused something to the effect of nuclear winter. However, in real life small particles that a volcano has emitted can stay up in the stratosphere absorbing and reflecting the sunlight even for years making the temperatures drop world-wide. If the darkness that Sauron conjured up had been purely something like that, would 1420 have been such a wonderful year in the Shire?
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