Of another world

[davem]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Anyway, this is getting dangerously far off-Tolkien...

You see, I'm not sure it is. For a while I've toyed with the idea of suggesting an 'Inklings' type discussion group on the Downs. The disucssion we've been having here strikes me as the kind of thing that would have gone on in Lewis' rooms in Magdelene on Thursday nights. Given what we know of Tolkien's love of getting together with companions & discussing all kinds of subjects in depth - particularly myth, religion & fairy story, but also current events philosophy & the meaning of existence - I don't see how our current debate could be considered 'unTolkien' at all. There was a great deal more to Tolkien than Middle-earth. If his religion shaped his thinking & worldview I don't see how a discussion of that subject is 'off-topic' at all.

But being able to put forth an argument & defend it against all-comers was central to the Inklings. If you make a statement, religious or otherwise, you have to be able to defend it against challengers. You can certainly opt out of any discussion if you feel it is hitting too close to home, but you aren't allowed to state something & then say, 'That's it! No more discussion, no more questions or challenges!' If you enter the Inklings arena you have to be prepared to fight your corner. You may say that a particular point was expressed in a way you find 'offensive' or upsetting & ask your opponent to kindly rephrase it in a more polite, respectful way, but if they do that then the point must be answered.

Your point re Abraham & Isaac is a good one. Certainly God's requirement of Abraham must (if you are a Christian) be seen & judged in the light of Christ's sacrifice. In fact, that is the only point of view from which it becomes acceptable. Without that it becomes the nasty little test of a smug, self righteous Deity - same with His ranting at Job - only the suffering & sacrifice of Christ can make the behaviour of the God of the old testament in anyway acceptable. His words via the Prophets may be of love & compassion but are only platitudes without Golgotha.

Except .... I'm just spouting clever sounding words there, because I'm not a Christian. I adopted a Christian viewpoint for a moment. In fact, I could have argued from a Christian perspective all along & put forward (as I've done in the past) a whole series of 'proofs' of the innate Christianity of LotR.

This is not an admission of any 'dishonesty' in previous posts. I responded honestly to each particular point made. I can see, if I choose, numerous correspondences between LotR & the Christian faith, but I can also look at the work another way & see none. Hence, I still hold that the work cannot be considered a 'Christian' work, though it can be seen & interpreted in that way. I'm sure one could come at it from a Moslem perspective, or a Buddhist, Hindu, Taoist or Pagan one & find enough in it to confirm it as a work entirely within that particular faith's worldview.

This is the problem with threads like this. Once you move away from the direct experience of the story & into 'interpretation' you'll find exactly what you're looking for.

In other words, its only a 'Christian' story if a Christian reads it....