Symbolic Representations in The Lord of the Rings - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

AragornII · 04-21-2006, 07:23 PM

I would have to agree that both Aragorn and Frodo could be Christ figures, although I would have to lean more towards Frodo. As Roa said, Frodo represents Christ bearing the sin of the world to be destroyed. Aragorn is more of a reach to me. He does go through the Paths of the Dead to bring salvation to man (or at least to the men of Minas Tirith

) but he doesn't die or suffer like Christ.

The symbolic representation that I see would be Gandalf as an angel and Saruman as the Devil. Gandalf and Saruman are both members of a high order, like the angels in Heaven. Then Saruman decides that he can be like a god himself, so he revolts, like Satan. However, he is defeated and cast down from the high place ( in the movie, he falls from Orthanc), like Satan from Heaven. If you're really creative, you can say that Helm's Deep represents the battle between the forces of Satan and the forces of God.

04-27-2006, 06:32 PM

I would like to note that Tolkien was a Christian. Christians have a habit of talking about Christ whenever they can. Also if you believe in God, you’ll have Him in all of your imaginary works. Whether or not Tolkien was trying to create a Christ-image, we’ll never know. You can find Christ images wherever you look, and no that does not take out the fun in the story but adds to it. For God is everywhere, even in our most outlandish, ridicules books. Everyone acknowledges that there is a God, every time they say, “Oh, my God” or swear “Jesus Christ!” (no offense, just a point being made)

On the account of evil and Satan, I believe that all evil comes forth from him. Satan is the most notorious, but he is not the only powerful evil in our world. I haven’t finished The Sil., so I don’t know what happened to Melkor. But evil overthrowing evil(or to that extent or representation) is not unreasonable.

You guys probably don’t want me to preach to you. (I will if you let me.) It all depends on what you believe. Tolkien and Lewis were close friends and Christians. They shared the same beliefs and I believe they added parts of their faith to their writings. The choice is yours to look for and believe it or not.

Roa_Aoife · 04-27-2006, 06:44 PM

Melannen, I think you'll find most of what you're getting at discussed primarily in this thread. Feel free to add your thoughts to it, but be careful- revival of that thread could open a whole new can of worms.

Estelyn Telcontar · 04-28-2006, 01:57 AM

Melannen, welcome to the Downs! Discussions of Tolkien's Christianity have been very lively in the past here on the Barrow-Downs forum. If you're interested in reading them, just use the search function (near the top right of the page) and enter "Christianity" or "Bible", etc. However, there have also been discussions that got so heated and personal because members wanted to out-argue each other, that we had to close the threads. You are very welcome to talk about all aspects of Tolkien's life and works, as long as the discussions are open for all to exchange their thoughts (including and especially those who don't agree!), and as long as the posts are polite and respectful.

Farael · 04-28-2006, 03:13 PM

I was wondering about whether or not to put this answer up and I hope all of you understand that it is to show that a story is just a bunch of words without a reader and what he or she puts into it.

How about Aragorn as a Jewish Prophet?

The Dunedain were persecuted by a greater evil that was enemy of the "free people of Middle Earth" (which could be associated with the Nazi persecution of Jewish people during World War II) and among their ranks one man rose, by divine inspiration or destiny, over his fellows to lead them and ultimately and after much hardship save them.

I could be drawing Aragorn to Moses connections and I haven't even combed through LoTR and The Sil to see if there was any other possibility.

I'm not saying that the christian views are wrong or right for that matter. A good story is in a way, like a mirror, it reflects ourselves and our values back at us and we all add a little something to a story. This is why each of us has his/her own opinions on all but every topic, including this one.

04-29-2006, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Melannen, I think you'll find most of what you're getting at discussed primarily in this thread. Feel free to add your thoughts to it, but be careful- revival of that thread could open a whole new can of worms.

I'm sorry. My last post was kind of uncalled for. It was a bad day...
I'll be careful in the future, and thanks for the reminder.

04-21-2006, 07:23 PM	#1
AragornII Wight Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Concluding negotiations Posts: 103	I would have to agree that both Aragorn and Frodo could be Christ figures, although I would have to lean more towards Frodo. As Roa said, Frodo represents Christ bearing the sin of the world to be destroyed. Aragorn is more of a reach to me. He does go through the Paths of the Dead to bring salvation to man (or at least to the men of Minas Tirith ) but he doesn't die or suffer like Christ. The symbolic representation that I see would be Gandalf as an angel and Saruman as the Devil. Gandalf and Saruman are both members of a high order, like the angels in Heaven. Then Saruman decides that he can be like a god himself, so he revolts, like Satan. However, he is defeated and cast down from the high place ( in the movie, he falls from Orthanc), like Satan from Heaven. If you're really creative, you can say that Helm's Deep represents the battle between the forces of Satan and the forces of God. __________________ From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken; The crownless again shall be king.

04-27-2006, 06:44 PM	#3
Roa_Aoife Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Someday, I'll rule all of it. Posts: 1,696	Melannen, I think you'll find most of what you're getting at discussed primarily in this thread. Feel free to add your thoughts to it, but be careful- revival of that thread could open a whole new can of worms. __________________ We can't all be Roas* when it comes to analysing...* -Lommy I didn't say you're evil, Roa, I said you're exasperating. -Nerwen

04-28-2006, 01:57 AM	#4
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Melannen, welcome to the Downs! Discussions of Tolkien's Christianity have been very lively in the past here on the Barrow-Downs forum. If you're interested in reading them, just use the search function (near the top right of the page) and enter "Christianity" or "Bible", etc. However, there have also been discussions that got so heated and personal because members wanted to out-argue each other, that we had to close the threads. You are very welcome to talk about all aspects of Tolkien's life and works, as long as the discussions are open for all to exchange their thoughts (including and especially those who don't agree!), and as long as the posts are polite and respectful. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

04-28-2006, 03:13 PM	#5
Farael Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: In hospitals, call rooms and (rarely) my apartment. Posts: 1,538	I was wondering about whether or not to put this answer up and I hope all of you understand that it is to show that a story is just a bunch of words without a reader and what he or she puts into it. How about Aragorn as a Jewish Prophet? The Dunedain were persecuted by a greater evil that was enemy of the "free people of Middle Earth" (which could be associated with the Nazi persecution of Jewish people during World War II) and among their ranks one man rose, by divine inspiration or destiny, over his fellows to lead them and ultimately and after much hardship save them. I could be drawing Aragorn to Moses connections and I haven't even combed through LoTR and The Sil to see if there was any other possibility. I'm not saying that the christian views are wrong or right for that matter. A good story is in a way, like a mirror, it reflects ourselves and our values back at us and we all add a little something to a story. This is why each of us has his/her own opinions on all but every topic, including this one. __________________ I prepared Explosive Runes this morning.

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04-27-2006, 06:32 PM	#2
Melannen Guest Posts: n/a	I would like to note that Tolkien was a Christian. Christians have a habit of talking about Christ whenever they can. Also if you believe in God, you’ll have Him in all of your imaginary works. Whether or not Tolkien was trying to create a Christ-image, we’ll never know. You can find Christ images wherever you look, and no that does not take out the fun in the story but adds to it. For God is everywhere, even in our most outlandish, ridicules books. Everyone acknowledges that there is a God, every time they say, “Oh, my God” or swear “Jesus Christ!” (no offense, just a point being made) On the account of evil and Satan, I believe that all evil comes forth from him. Satan is the most notorious, but he is not the only powerful evil in our world. I haven’t finished The Sil., so I don’t know what happened to Melkor. But evil overthrowing evil(or to that extent or representation) is not unreasonable. You guys probably don’t want me to preach to you. (I will if you let me.) It all depends on what you believe. Tolkien and Lewis were close friends and Christians. They shared the same beliefs and I believe they added parts of their faith to their writings. The choice is yours to look for and believe it or not.