Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves)

[The Saucepan Man]

Given the amount of space it has taken up (to which I am now contributing), and the difficulty I just had in finding the latest version of the rules (despite lmp’s helpful update posts), it might (with the benefit of hindsight) have been worth creating an admin thread specifically for this game.

A few thoughts.

First, I think that everyone should steer clear of criticising the playing styles of others. Everyone has a different style of play, whether adopted for tactical purposes, because of general inclination or as a result of RL events. Provided it stays within the game rules, then people are free to adopt whatever style they wish. That does not mean that particular styles may not be used tactically (either by or against the person in question), but please can everyone avoid direct criticism of other players.

By way of example:

“I think that X should be lynched because he hardly says anything and is not contributing towards finding a Wolf.”

… is fine, whereas …

“X hardly says anything and is spoiling the game.”

… is not.

Secondly, the thorny issue of OOC comments. It has become rather common for people to mention previous games and their fellow players’ exploits therein. I have never been entirely comfortable with that, as it somewhat detracts from the role-play aspect. Nevertheless, it is inevitable (and understandable) that people will use their previous experiences of games and other players in their decision-making and it is only fair that they be allowed to explain those decisions, rather than looking like they are simply making random decisions. Any rule against direct references to previous games is, in any event, easily circumvented by prefacing statement with things like: “I have heard tell that in other villages …” or “Knowing X as I do …” or "In a past life ..." etc. It’s up to lmp whether he wants to ban references to previous games, but I would not be in favour.

As far as Nogrod’s reference to Kath and I using “ungentlemanly tactics” in the previous game is concerned, well I am afraid that I take the view, in a game based on bluff and deceit like Werewolf, that anything which is not specifically prohibited by the rules is a legitimate tactic. It is, I think, as well to be clear on that point up front.

Originally Posted by Loki

It seems to me as though "Day 1" decisions will be based solely on happensay and witless suspicion.

Usually, yes (although not always). But I’m not so sure that will necessarily be the case in this particular game. We’ll soon find out, anyway.

Originally Posted by lmp

The gifteds know who the good wizard is; the good wizard may PM the gifteds during the Day, and the gifteds may PM the good wizard during the Day.

I think that we may have touched on this issue before, but I just wanted to revisit it. I am not so sure that the Gifteds should automatically know the identity of the GW since, should they become de-Gifted and then Werewolfed, they will be able to pass this information on to the EW. I realise that the GW can seek to avoid this by scrying the de-Gifted person following their de-Giftication and, if necessary, allow them to die, but this may get in the way of his/her other plans. Would it not be better, therefore, if it was left up to the GW whether or not to reveal him/her-self to the Gifteds (and, if so, which ones)? The EW enjoys such a privilege, so why not the GW?

Two further questions.

I assume that the GW gets to scry a villager on Night 1. Is that right?

This may have been addressed previously, but I’ll be darned if I can find it. Do Gifteds/Werewolves get to carry out their Night-time activities on the same night that they are scried/Werewolfed, or must they wait until the next Night?

Finally, I know from experience just how emotionally, as well as intellectually, absorbing Werewolf games can become. But, in light of events in recent games, please can everyone bear in mind that it’s just a game.

Edit:

Originally Posted by TP

Not revealing who is who could give the Wizards, Gifteds, and Wolves chances to either speak truth to the village or fool it. It would generate discussion. It would force people to form multiple theories.

If those things sound attractive, you need to vote "IN FAVOR".

I thoroughly agree.

[Kuruharan]

I am not so sure that the Gifteds should automatically know the identity of the GW since, should they become de-Gifted and then Werewolfed, they will be able to pass this information on to the EW. I realise that the GW can seek to avoid this by scrying the de-Gifted person following their de-Giftication and, if necessary, allow them to die, but this may get in the way of his/her other plans. Would it not be better, therefore, if it was left up to the GW whether or not to reveal him/her-self to the Gifteds (and, if so, which ones)? The EW enjoys such a privilege, so why not the GW?

As LMP has conceived it, it basically does not matter who knows who the GW is. The GW is invincible except by the EW. Essentially, the GW could be announced at the beginning of the game (in fact, perhaps this should just be done and get it over with...?) and it might not really impact the game at all (well, except there will suddenly be a player who will basically just pontificate and everybody will be toadying up to in a nauseating fashion). The GW wants the EW to challenge because that is the end of the spawning of werewolves.

The GW basically lives to die (hopefully after getting a full stock of gifteds) while the EW lives to spawn werewolves.

[Loki]

I assume that the GW gets to scry a villager on Night 1. Is that right?

Now that's just plain silly. What motive would the GW have to spy on the lives of innocent townfolk? He would have to wait for Night 2. Unless, of course, the GW is The Saucepan Man, that lecherous barkeeper... that godless sodomite...

[Roa_Aoife]

There is the possibility the EW good use the knowledge of who the GW is to his or her advantage- say the EW waits until there are plently of wolves, sees that there are few or no gifted, and then chooses to kill the GW, essentially leaving the village in a horrible spot. There are advantages to secrecy on both sides.

Edit: Cross-posted with Loki. Yes, the GW scries one villager on Night 1, then gets to choose which gift to bestow upon said villager. Or the GW could choose not to bestow said gift, not that he/she would choose that, but it's a possible choice.

[Kuruharan]

There is the possibility the EW good use the knowledge of who the GW is to his or her advantage- say the EW waits until there are plently of wolves, sees that there are few or no gifted, and then chooses to kill the GW, essentially leaving the village in a horrible spot.

That is basically what the EW wants to do anyway...I don't see what the difference is.

[Roa_Aoife]

I'm just pointing out one reason why the GW wouldn't want to reveal themself right off the bat. Of course, this all better as in game speculation. I think it should be up to the GW as to whether or not they are revealed to the gifted.

[Oddwen]

Then what have we the Herald of Benevolence for? Let the GW decide wether to reveal themselves or not.

it will simply require more than a read through.

*singing* Don't stop the werewolves when they lynch you, this game is more than just a read-through */singing*

[Kuruharan]

Then what have we the Herald of Benevolence for?

I'm here basically to do all the normal moderating stuff (i.e. Seer dreams, keeping track of Ranger protection and Hunter targets) so that LMP and Boro88 can do all the sorting out of the werewolf decision-making and cursed player stuff (and I don't particularly envy them because I think that job is going to be similar to herding cats...especially since we will operate with 24 hour days and have all that annoying Trans-Atlantic and Pacific communication to iron out).

[Loki]

Edit: Cross-posted with Loki. Yes, the GW scries one villager on Night 1, then gets to choose which gift to bestow upon said villager. Or the GW could choose not to bestow said gift, not that he/she would choose that, but it's a possible choice.

What? That's utter nonsense! How will the Good Wizard have known that werewolves were in his town without them first making their appearance?

"Oh, well, he's the Good Wizard." Then how does that explain the presence of this evil? An Evil Wizard could have been tampering with his magic. Seriously, that's ludicris. That's assuming that the GW knows all about the werewolves and is preparing for it, or just randomly bestows gifts of hunter or ranger or seer upon his people, and that's infeasible. Else, everyone would have some kind of power to combat this threat. The only explanation is that no one saw it coming, and thus the GW would not be spying on his own people unless he was some kind of pervert. Didn't anyone get the The Saucepan Man joke?

*grumble* *grumble*

I say let the damn players do what they want. If they want to PM each other, fine. if they want to "reveal" their roles to each other, fine. If the GW/EW want to reveal the roles of the wolves or gifted to them, fine. It's their decision, it's their way of playing the game. If they want to screw themselves over by playing badly, it's, quite honestly, their own fault. If we have to suffer for it, it sucks, but that's just called being "fair."

What is up with all of this useless banter?