LotR2-TTT-Seq14 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elladan and Elrohir · 05-19-2006, 02:40 PM

Incidentally, this sequence actually gives us a view of Arwen in her role from the book, though I'd say it's been overstated. In "The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen," we are told that Arwen "watched over him from afar in thought," or something like that. Can't provide the exact quote right now.

Ah, the pinnacle of King ThinElrondgol! I hadn't noticed the significance of what language Arwen uses in this scene, though; thanks for pointing that out, alatar.

The vision of the dead Aragorn is absolutely brilliant, even using the phrasing of the book. I love it, though I don't love how Elrond uses it.

The best part, of course, is when Elrond manipulates her by saying, "Do I not also have your love?" There's a loving father for you.

So off she goes, accompanied by Figwit, who is probably Elrond's choice for her as a husband.

The real reason Elrond stays behind is that he's got Galadriel on hold.

Boromir88 · 05-27-2006, 08:32 PM

I don't mind the inserted scenes between Aragorn and Arwen. As I think it's good to show the "love" between the two of them. What would audience think if Arwen was in the first movie, is non-existant and he's spending his whole time wiht Eowyn, then suddenly he denies her and marries back with the Elf chick? I think the Arwen and Aragorn scenes throughout the movies, "the dreams," actually intensifies the love triangle between Aragorn, Arwen, and Eowyn. Something that would not have been as good, if Arwen was non-existant until the end of ROTK.

With that being said this horse scene and Aragorn off the cliff I absolutely despise. This is just senseless Hollywood at it's best. It doesn't add anything vital too the movie. And as we all know my biggest complaints against PJ is additions that don't contribute anything towards the movies.

I hear a lot of times when us bookies complain about something not being in the movies, the typical response is "You can't have a carbon-copy of the book. Stuff has to be cut out." And to tell you the truth, we all know this, Tolkien knew this and knew that in movies you have to cut out parts. And in rebuttal to "there's not enough time," I will say "How about the time Jackson misuses?" This being one of several examples. A useless scene as there's no need to have Aragorn fall off a cliff, the time taken up by this could have been used elsewhere.

Elladan and Elrohir · 05-29-2006, 08:08 PM

I don't think it's as simple as "Well, PJ has to cut stuff to make a movie of reasonable length." That's part of it, but he also has to make changes, and even in some cases additions. Because, obviously, you can't directly translate a book to film, and make it work. I used to think you could, but after hearing what Philippa Boyens has had to say, I now think differently.

That's not to say that I think the Aragorn-goes-off-the-cliff addition is great and should have been done the way it was. But I definitely think you can make an argument that this accomplishes some key things in the film. It deepens Eowyn's affection for Aragorn. It empowers Arwen to actually be able to do something significant in the film, which is important because Arwen stands for hope in this movie, and hope is one of its biggest themes. It provides a more dramatic way for Theoden to learn of the coming of the hosts of Isengard. There may be other reasons as well.

Again, I'm not saying I like it or agree with it. I'm just saying that there are reasons within the context of the film, and I can at least partially understand why they inserted it in there.

Essex · 08-13-2006, 06:28 PM

excellent point on the language Arwen uses Alatar - I also never noticed the change before

excellent shots of aragorn trotting back to helms deep on Brego - very arty shots I must say so!

no much more to add to alatar's good intro other than the music as Arwen leaves Rivendell is my favourite piece in the trilogy. I really thought they would use this piece heavily in ROTK, but alas no.

And Mr Shore didn't play this titbit in his live performance either. Ah well, you can't have everything.

PS sorry I'm so late adding to these discussions, too much time spent on the Outpost Gallifrey forum when I've had time over the past 6 months or so............

05-19-2006, 02:40 PM	#1
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	Incidentally, this sequence actually gives us a view of Arwen in her role from the book, though I'd say it's been overstated. In "The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen," we are told that Arwen "watched over him from afar in thought," or something like that. Can't provide the exact quote right now. Ah, the pinnacle of King ThinElrondgol! I hadn't noticed the significance of what language Arwen uses in this scene, though; thanks for pointing that out, alatar. The vision of the dead Aragorn is absolutely brilliant, even using the phrasing of the book. I love it, though I don't love how Elrond uses it. The best part, of course, is when Elrond manipulates her by saying, "Do I not also have your love?" There's a loving father for you. So off she goes, accompanied by Figwit, who is probably Elrond's choice for her as a husband. The real reason Elrond stays behind is that he's got Galadriel on hold. __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

05-27-2006, 08:32 PM	#2
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	I don't mind the inserted scenes between Aragorn and Arwen. As I think it's good to show the "love" between the two of them. What would audience think if Arwen was in the first movie, is non-existant and he's spending his whole time wiht Eowyn, then suddenly he denies her and marries back with the Elf chick? I think the Arwen and Aragorn scenes throughout the movies, "the dreams," actually intensifies the love triangle between Aragorn, Arwen, and Eowyn. Something that would not have been as good, if Arwen was non-existant until the end of ROTK. With that being said this horse scene and Aragorn off the cliff I absolutely despise. This is just senseless Hollywood at it's best. It doesn't add anything vital too the movie. And as we all know my biggest complaints against PJ is additions that don't contribute anything towards the movies. I hear a lot of times when us bookies complain about something not being in the movies, the typical response is "You can't have a carbon-copy of the book. Stuff has to be cut out." And to tell you the truth, we all know this, Tolkien knew this and knew that in movies you have to cut out parts. And in rebuttal to "there's not enough time," I will say "How about the time Jackson misuses?" This being one of several examples. A useless scene as there's no need to have Aragorn fall off a cliff, the time taken up by this could have been used elsewhere. __________________ Fenris Penguin

05-29-2006, 08:08 PM	#3
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	I don't think it's as simple as "Well, PJ has to cut stuff to make a movie of reasonable length." That's part of it, but he also has to make changes, and even in some cases additions. Because, obviously, you can't directly translate a book to film, and make it work. I used to think you could, but after hearing what Philippa Boyens has had to say, I now think differently. That's not to say that I think the Aragorn-goes-off-the-cliff addition is great and should have been done the way it was. But I definitely think you can make an argument that this accomplishes some key things in the film. It deepens Eowyn's affection for Aragorn. It empowers Arwen to actually be able to do something significant in the film, which is important because Arwen stands for hope in this movie, and hope is one of its biggest themes. It provides a more dramatic way for Theoden to learn of the coming of the hosts of Isengard. There may be other reasons as well. Again, I'm not saying I like it or agree with it. I'm just saying that there are reasons within the context of the film, and I can at least partially understand why they inserted it in there. __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

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08-13-2006, 06:28 PM	#4
Essex Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 886	excellent point on the language Arwen uses Alatar - I also never noticed the change before excellent shots of aragorn trotting back to helms deep on Brego - very arty shots I must say so! no much more to add to alatar's good intro other than the music as Arwen leaves Rivendell is my favourite piece in the trilogy. I really thought they would use this piece heavily in ROTK, but alas no. And Mr Shore didn't play this titbit in his live performance either. Ah well, you can't have everything. PS sorry I'm so late adding to these discussions, too much time spent on the Outpost Gallifrey forum when I've had time over the past 6 months or so............