Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXI: Dueling Wizards Werewolf

[Lalaith]

Oh and there wasn't much odd about my vote for Oddwen. I felt it necessary to break the tie, anything else would have been pusillanimous.

As for Loki and the cannon-fodder - I thought he would be a good choice for the EW to curse and then get killed. He had shown himself to be rather a stroppy person in the preliminary discussions, someone who would probably do something controversial fairly quickly, and it would be easy for the EW to construct a case against him.

[Roa_Aoife]

Sigh. Roa, that has been my main theory for two or three days now, and I'm clearly not explaining myself very well if you've been going over my posts and haven't understood my argument.

You know, at that point I had just read the theory. The more I read, however, the more I understand it.

Oh and there wasn't much odd about my vote for Oddwen. I felt it necessary to break the tie, anything else would have been pusillanimous.

Alright, I see your point, though I disgree with your reasons. I've always thought that we should vote for whomever we think is guilty, other people be damned. (One reason I had such a bad reaction to Gurthang's plan.) I do realize though that others don't follow this thought, so I'll let it go for now.

Day 4, coming soon

[Diamond18]

I can't say I really like Gurthang's assertion that the villagers should concern ourselves with wolves and leave the Evil Wizard to the big boys. But then, you already know how I feel about leaving the important work to the "big boys" (aka GW and Gifteds). I just find the idea that it's so unlikely that we'll catch the EW that we shouldn't even bother looking, to be a bit narrow minded.

Roa: so what you're saying is that you can be as condescending and judgmental as you like, but heaven forbid that I should take offense at being portrayed as a twaddle head? Okay.... I don't mind being suspected, after all I suspect other people, but your tone is always one of "This is how I play and it is the perfect way, anyone who doesn't play this way is either evil or stupid." Just thought I'd point that out to you. I let it slide after reading the analysis, trying to avoid a debate that Morm described as "so hot there would literally be flames" but now as I continue to post I do feel it rather behooves me to let you know that you're just being redundant, yourself, before you go ahead and critique my "nonsense" the usual way.

I'd like to know why Roa disappeared from the lynch-list after yesterDay, I have two theories on this, but feel it best to keep them to myself. I think toMorrow will answer any question I have on the matter. But right now I feel she's looking rather EWish. I don't think that Eomer's suggestion that LMP made the Wizards one of each sex is too far fetched -- not that I'm prepared to discount a male EW, and I might as well say that I think if the EW is male, it's Morm. But if it is female, that seems to make me, Roa, and Fea look the most likely. And of those three, Roa seems most likely to me.

I don't know what to think of Zali and Alcarillo, the two people I have to pick from (since I don't want to vote Fea or Kit) so I'll wait a bit more before voting.

[Roa_Aoife]

Lalaith analysis, cont.

Day 4
1st post - points out flaw in Fea's theory, says that if a false GW comes forward, then the real GW can come forward, says we should bully him/her into coming out

2nd - Apologizes to Loki

3rd - hunter should stay hidden, agrees with Nilp, says she knew something was up with Gurthang, wants to know why the wolves attacked him, inclined to vote Valier

4th - wonders if Firefoot could come up with the List of Doom

5th - Notes that Gurthang can't PM Firefoot the name of the hunter since he can only pm with gifteds

6th - notes that by going by the list of the most suspected we could miss the turned wolf from the previous night, points out that drawing up a list for the next days lynching makes it easier for the EW to pick a new wolf

7th - collates information about voting patterns and wolf creations

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpos...&postcount=653

Okay, now I get it.

8th - general impression of village

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpos...&postcount=656

9th - says that she was worried that Gurthang would be challenged before he could make a list

10th - points out that the wolves could kill Nilp

11th - Notes that Kitanna had assumed the wolves knew each other, doesn't believe this to be true

12th - Questions Morm

13th - Lists rules regarding werewolf identities

14th - Votes Valier, impressed by Spawn's Roa=EW theory, has some other theories of her own

Have we heard those yet? I'd like to, if you have time. As for Day 5- you all can read that yourself.


After all this, there are some things that tweak me about Lal, but not enough for me to consider her guilty. My only concern is that she may be the wolf from last night, since she's intelligent and vocal but hasn't drawn much suspicion as of yet.

[Roa_Aoife]

Roa: so what you're saying is that you can be as condescending and judgmental as you like, but heaven forbid that I should take offense at being portrayed as a twaddle head?

I wasn't being condescending or judgemental. Nor did I portray you as a twaddle head. I've said this many times before- I will never, ever, insinuate that one of my fellow players is stupid, moronic, or twaddle-headed, because I simply don't believe it to be the case. Show me where I depicted you as a twaddle head, and I'll explain how that is not the case.

Okay.... I don't mind being suspected, after all I suspect other people, but your tone is always one of "This is how I play and it is the perfect way, anyone who doesn't play this way is either evil or stupid." Just thought I'd point that out to you.

I didn't realize this was my tone at all. I play according to what I think is best, but I've never claimed it was perfect. Nor have I ever stated that anyone who didn't play my way was stupid or evil. Infact, yesterday I was speaking aginst someone saying just that. I found the flaws in your posts and I brought them to light, and that was all I did.

but now as I continue to post I do feel it rather behooves me to let you know that you're just being redundant, yourself, before you go ahead and critique my "nonsense" the usual way.

First, you obviously weren't letting it slide, as you made the snide comment first.

Secondly, I don't see where I have been redundant. And as I said earlier, "nonsense" refers to in character posting, which I usually do not engage in, and have not for this entire game.

You over-reacted to my analysis, made a snide comment about me, and then accused be of being rude and close minded when the rudeness started with you.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Tea? Biscuits? Change of subject? Let's be nice, shall we?

We have evil people to lynch. We don't need an argument cluttering thoughts.

[Roa_Aoife]

You're right Fea, we shouldn't get into this- at least not here. Diamond, if you wish to continue, PM me, so we can work this out. (I have a feeling you work stuff out in a similar fashion to me, ie, yelling.)

[Alcarillo]

Just popping in quick to vote.

++Fea

To keep her ahead by a few votes.

Yes, I've been laying low for a while. But that's not because I'm evil! Just trying to survive here with votes flying at me.

[Kath]

Hey look, I returned! And I have to say guys though I don't condone this arguing, I love the term twaddle head

[Roa_Aoife]

Must get underway soon.

Alcarillo- I still think the cases against him are weak.

Zali- I think she's an innocent who is as clueless as the rest of us and far more unlucky.

That leaves Kitanna and Fea. Fea is (slightly) more suspicious than Kitanna, mostly because she's such an unknown element. So

++Fea

Maybe tomorrow the list will have some people I can get stronger ideas of.

[Lalaith]

Right. Back to the pressing issue of voting.
After the fairly straightforward decision about Valier yesterday, I found this shortlist quite a tough one.

Kitanna could be a recent wolf. But I'm not sure enough about her one way or another to vote for her.
Azaelia was feeling innocent to me before, and she was too suspected to be a recent wolf. The only thing that bothers me about her is this Q&A she had with Kath which ended up making Zali look less guilty at the end of it and therefore made me wonder about the purpose of the whole exercise as a possible set-up.
Fea - I've gone back and forth about this and I've now decided to give her the benefit of the doubt, partly because I kind of concur with her EW theories, and partly because I think she's more likely an EW than a wolf I'm taking Gurthang's points on board about him finding the EW.
That leaves Alcarillo. He's as good as suspect as any to be the original surviving wolf.
++ALCARILLO

Roa, you asked about my own EW theories.
I think that the likeliest remaining candidates for EW are Fea, Diamond, Roa, Spawn, Eomer and Morm. Jenny and ( very maybe) Caran and Lommy are possibles.
Of the likely crowd, I am inclined to put Spawn and Eomer at the bottom of the list because of wolf choices. Morm has been feeling pretty innocent but he's definitely smart enough to pull a bluff.

[Kitanna]

Now to continue with what I left off with before bed...
DAY THREE

Alcarillo=
My son! My son! O phantom, my son! O, phantom, my favorite son! Your mother and I cherished you most of all our two children! *sob* O, phantom! Now Eomer is my only hope for grandchildren! *sob* But you have died honorably, phantom, with a dead werewolf in your hands! *sob*

The post that a lot of villagers felt was too in character and overboard.

Alcarillo=
If by yesterday's "overreaction" you mean my spirited defense, then I'll explain. Saucepan Man and I had exchanged votes on the first day, so naturally his death would point at me as a double-bluffing wolf, as some of you accused. If my defense seemed overeager, I suppose it was, but fingers across the village were pointing at me. I was the topic of debate, and I just wanted to dispel the dangerous rumors.

Another spirited defense of his actions from the Day before, regarding SpM death and suspicions of him. If I recall fingers weren't really being pointed at him, Alcarillo's name appeared several times, but most of the time he wasn't high up on anyone's list. So his defense does seem a little to defensive and odd.

Fea=
It is common knowledge that I'm a shady character whom the village never trusts. While I don't want to die, I won't refrain from putting forth ideas or plans, even if they might lead to my death. I don't want anybody taken for granted. I want the village to win. If that means killing me, I'll be a martyr, but I'm not going to keep thoughts to myself for self-preservation. That's a wolvish tactic that I've never been good at.

Fea speaks truth and her shady past does tend to get her killed. But labeling herself as a martyr worries me. It makes me a bit uncomfortable to hear anyone talking about such things, more so with Fea given past actions. I feel almost challenged by this statement, lynch her just to see what happens.
DAY FOUR

Alcarillo=
++Roa Aoife

Her rebellious talk is unsettling. I like the GW's plan. It's worth a shot. I'd trust the GW. He's essentially a seer, only un-kill-able by ordinary methods, and with multiple seers (GW and whatever seers he makes), I think we could really narrow down our list of unknown villagers.

I think this is noteworthy. A few villagers said Roa's rebellious talk made her seem less likely to be the EW or a wolf. The open talk against Gurthang and his plan seemed like the work of an innocent. Yet Alcarillo comes on after rare appearances since his spirited defenses and votes for Roa because she's rebellious. I'd say the EW or wolf would want to hide completely behind the GW's plan and back it as best s/he could, which is what Alcarillo did here.

I'm going to be totally honest and say I'm clueless about Fea. It's easy for her to go either way. As for Alcarillo, well on Day Two he mentioned if he was evil he'd be laying low and trying to divert attention from himself and since then he's been doing just that. Day Three he was mostly in character and Day Four he latched onto Gurthang's idea and shunned Roa for not doing the same.

I'll read today's posts and then cast my vote.

[Kitanna]

I most certainly do not excuse Kitanna from my suspect list because of her sudden helpfulness yesterday.

Since a number of villagers have made this sort of comment I feel the need to defend myself. I've been more helpful because I haven't been too busy the last few days (RL-wise) and if I should survive the night I will probably go back to being unhelpful after toDay because work and such calls.

Fea=
I kind of don't blame you if you kill me (I see I'm on the hit list for the day)... but it's a bad idea. I'm innocent and quite frankly astounded I haven't been dreamt of, but as a village, we can't afford to make any mistakes.

There it is again. The type of statement that makes me want to lynch Fea just to see what happens, but also makes me hold back for fear she may be telling the truth.
I view Fea the same way I view Eomer. I suspect them, but when it comes down to it I have just enough doubt to keep me from actually voting for them.

Alcarillo=
Yes, I've been laying low for a while. But that's not because I'm evil! Just trying to survive here with votes flying at me.

Yet when mere suspicions were flying at you you defended yourself like there's no tomorrow. I'd think a person would act the opposite. Lay low with mere suspicions and defend themselves as best they could when votes began coming their way.

Now it comes down to it, Fea or Alcarillo.
I feel like some of Fea's posts are challenging me to vote for her because she'll become a "martyr" if she's lynched and proven innocent. I can see her as the EW, but her posts put doubt into my mind, which is probably what she was aiming to do.

I think Alcarillo is a wolf. He's been laying low and now when he should defend himself he votes for the other top suspect and disappears again. He said himself if he was evil he'd lay low. However, his change in behavior really began on Day Three which leads me to believe he's probably not the EW, but a wolf convert.

++Alcarillo

I would vote for Fea, but I have so much doubt about her I can't bring myself to do, but I'm confident Alcarillo is a wolf at least. His change in behavior is too disturbing for me to think he's innocent. I believe he was a wolf convert a few nights back. It would explain his suddent disappearance, only emerging to cast a vote. Plus he latched onto Gurthang's plan without even considering how it could go wrong and he voted the one on Gurthang's list that really spoke out against it.

[Glirdan]

Well, I don't have time to look over what's been said (I'm making supper in RL) so I'm going to vote for that person who still stands to me as suspicious

++Zali

Godd night everyone.

[Roa_Aoife]

Vote count

1. morm --> Alcarillo (Alcarillo 1)
2. Oddwen --> Feanor (Alcarillo 1, Feanor 1)
3. spawn --> Feanor (Alcarillo 1, Feanor 2)
4. Caranlondien --> Feanor (Alcarillo 1, Feanor 3)
5. Thinlomien --> Alcarillo (Alcarillo 2, Feanor 3)
6. Sleepy Ranger --> Feanor (Alcarillo 2, Feanor 4)
7. Kath --> Alcarillo (Alcarillo 3, Feanor 4)
8. Eomer --> Feanor (Alcarillo 3, Feanor 5)
9. Alcarillo --> Feanor (Alcarillo 3, Feanor 6)
10. Roa_Aoife --> Feanor (Alcarillo 3, Feanor 7)
11. Lalaith --> Alcarillo (Alcarillo 4, Feanor 7)
12. Zali --> Alcarillo (Alcarillo 5, Feanor 7)
13. Kitanna --> Alcarillo (Alcarillo 6, Feanor 7)
14. Glirdan --> Zali (Alcarillo 6, Feanor 7, Zali 1)
15. Diamond --> Alcarillo (Alcarillo 7, Feanor 7, Zali 1)

Voters left:
Feanor
Jenny Hallu
Eonwe
Gurthang

[Roa_Aoife]

Wait a minute- did Kath just vote Alca twice?

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Wait a minute- did Kath just vote Alca twice?

No, that was Kitanna just now.

[Lalaith]

No, Kitanna voted Alc.

[Roa_Aoife]

OKay, I've fixed it and added in Diamond's vote.

[Gurthang]

After glancing through Kitanna's posts, I didn't come up with anything that made me too suspicious. Actually, her and Alcarillo are about the same in my mind. Well, they would be... except for Alcarillo's vote just a little while ago.

++Alcarillo

Here's hoping he's a wolf.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

++Alcarillo

Told ya if it came down to it...

[JennyHallu]

Agh...taking care of Neal, would almost miss voting.

I'm feeling better about Zali with her attitude today, but Kitanna makes me nervous.

++Kitanna

P.S. Hubby is now feverish. I have not read the thread since about 4. Gah!

[Gurthang]

Alcarillo - 9
Feanor - 7
Azaelia - 1
Kitann - 1

That's it. Alcarillo, I really hope you're Lupine.