Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves)

[Caranlondien]

Changeling - the person with this role will choose another player each Night and will gain that players power for the Night, in place of the real Gifted. For example, if I was the Seer and Lommy was the Changeling, if Lommy chose me that Night she would dream in my place, but I would be informed of who she dreamed of. If the Changeling chooses a wolf, that wolf cannot join in the Night's PMing (once they know they've been chosen) but nor can the Changeling. However, the Changeling does get final decision on the kill. They cannot choose the same person until 2 Night's has passed, and they cannot reveal anything they have learned about people's roles at Night, but while in posession of a Gift (be it good or evil) they are on that teams side. So, as a wolf they could kill the Seer if they knew who the player was, and as the Seer they could dream of a wolf to let the real Seer know who one was.

This sounds like an interesting role... but I have a couple of questions. Which team are they on (i.e., under what circumstances does the Changeling win)? And it says that they can't reveal what they've found out at night... But if they find a wolf they'll obviously vote based on it, so are they allowed to hint at it? Finally, does the Seer dream of the Changeling as the Changeling or as an ordo?

[Nogrod]

Some more questions about the Changeling.

- Is the Changeling in the acquired role only during the night-phases? You say they are on that team's side when in possession of the gift, but what does that mean? So what are her/his primary goals?
- If the Changeling picks a wolf, will s/he just contact the moderator to decide the kill?
- What constitutes "revealing the information" gotten during the night? If someone learns that X is a wolf, can s/he make a case against the X on the next day with all might if s/he just doesn't say, that s/he knows it because of last night? It may become quite hard to remain sane if you come to change sides everynight - and trying to remember not to disclose any information gained at nights while taking part to the discussion.

[The Saucepan Man]

Kath, if you're starting tonight you can count me in.

I shall be a retired Arda-famous chariot racer and playboy millionaire.

I would echo Caran's questions about the Changeling role. If he/she swaps sides with every new role, then it would make sense to play with that in mind. In other words, since the likeliest night-time pick is an innocent (whether gifted or not), it will surely be in the Changeling's interests always to play for the good side as this is the side s/he is most likely to end up on.

Would it not make more sense to say that the Changeling is on one side or the other throughout the game and that s/he can use his/her gift to that end? So, if on the side of good, s/he can use an assumed Wolf role to try to kill off a Wolf. And, if on the evil side, s/he can use an assumed Seer role to try to dream of other Gifteds.

I would suggest that the Changeling be on the Wolves' side (but without knowing their identities) and that s/he gains only the roles of the good Gifteds, making him or her rather like a "powered-up" Cobbler. Alhough that might require something to balance the game out, though, as otherwise the Wolves might be too powerful.

I don't know. Just some thoughts off the top of my head. But the Changeling role does need some clarifying though, I think.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by SpM

I don't know. Just some thoughts off the top of my head. But the Changeling role does need some clarifying though, I think.

I agree. I'm not sure how well this role will work out. I thought that you were going for a simple game Kath!

I'm rather perplexed at the general purpose of the role and how it all fits in together. I just spoke about shifting alliegances in Dueling Wizards and how difficult it felt for me the first day and I cannot imagine if you switch back and forth multiple times. Also this role has the potential to be super powered if he/she makes the correct picks. Let's say he picks the seer and dreams of somebody and it's the ranger. Next night he chooses a wolf and becomes one. Then the wolves know of two gifteds and dispatch them without delay. Now this is a bit far fetched I'll admit but possible and the changling could have far too much impact on this game in my opinion.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by morm

Also this role has the potential to be super powered if he/she makes the correct picks.

Quite so. But if the Changeling is on the Wolves' side, but unable to communicate with them and unable to direct kills, the only way s/he would be able to use the knowledge would be to try to influence lynchings. Ergo the "poered up" Cobbler comment.

[Mithalwen]

Befuddled already - can I change my role to village idiot?

Does this mean that the changeling could unwittingly as wolf lill another wolf then being normalised next day get the wolf they chose killed...

[Kath]

Alright let's see if I can answer these questions.

Does that mean the Changling gets to tell you to tell the degifted Seer about dreams received while usurping the gift?

Yes, everything the Changeling does will go through me. The people chosen by the Changeling will never know who it was.

Which team are they on (i.e., under what circumstances does the Changeling win)?

During the Day they are on the villagers side. At Night they are on whatever side the person they have chosen is.

And it says that they can't reveal what they've found out at night... But if they find a wolf they'll obviously vote based on it, so are they allowed to hint at it?

They can hint in that they can find evidence in game to support it. They cannot say 'last Night I was a wolf' because they are not allowed to reveal.

Finally, does the Seer dream of the Changeling as the Changeling or as an ordo?

An ordo.

Is the Changeling in the acquired role only during the night-phases? You say they are on that team's side when in possession of the gift, but what does that mean? So what are her/his primary goals?

Yes. That means that if they are a wolf at Night the primary goal is to kill all the villagers, and if they are a Seer it is to scry a wolf.

If the Changeling picks a wolf, will s/he just contact the moderator to decide the kill?

Yes.

What constitutes "revealing the information" gotten during the night? If someone learns that X is a wolf, can s/he make a case against the X on the next day with all might if s/he just doesn't say, that s/he knows it because of last night?

Exactly yes, I believe that answers Caran's question.

Sauce, nice to have you in! But I'm going to say no to any ideas about the Changeling because it took me long enough to work out what I was doing with this version. Thank you anyway

Also this role has the potential to be super powered if he/she makes the correct picks. Let's say he picks the seer and dreams of somebody and it's the ranger. Next night he chooses a wolf and becomes one. Then the wolves know of two gifteds and dispatch them without delay.

Wrong. The Changeling cannot PM with the wolves, so they don't know who s/he may have dreamt of previously. And yes I know I said this would be a simple game, but that was compared to lmp's

As to being too powerful, that depends. If the Changeling were fortunate enough to choose all three wolves one after the other and was able to persuade the rest of the village to lynch them then yes. But how likely is it that one player is going to be able to do that? Half the time people argue against the Seer when they tell them who to vote for

[Kath]

Does this mean that the changeling could unwittingly as wolf lill another wolf then being normalised next day get the wolf they chose killed...

I'm actually still undecided on that. Should the Changeling be able to kill a wolf as a wolf?

What do you think people?

[Kath]

Thread's open, yell at me if I've forgotten to put anything in. Roles are coming out now. I won't be back until about 15 minutes before the game starts (go my planning ) so apologies if anyone has problems.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Kath

I'm actually still undecided on that. Should the Changeling be able to kill a wolf as a wolf?

What do you think people?

I'd say yes ..it will be interesting ..besides if they don't get a kill they will know a second wolf.... well unless the Ranger is around ...

But if so can a Ranger protect a wolf from the Changeling uber wolf?

And if the hunter hunts the changelings changee who dies?