Dueling Wizards Werewolf Suggestion Thread

[Naria]

I seem to be alone in not liking the new Hunter.

In my opinion a Seer should be a Seer and a Hunter should be a Hunter, and never the twain should meet. I am not averse to altering the Hunter rules, but the Hunter should not become just another Seer. Better that the GW be able to Gift multiple Seers than that any Gifted he makes is more or less a Seer, no matter the Gift.

Plus I was horrendously confused and still am as to what exactly the Hunter did/could do/etc. And an automatic wolf kill if attacked in the Night means there is no difference between a clever and foolish Hunter.

*Raises hand*
I am in total agreement with not liking the new Hunter in this game.


My two cents for what it's worth

I am also in agreement that sometimes roles have to be played with a little in order for things to not be so boring(regular gifted in a regular game),but I didn't like what happened in this game. I thought and still do think that it was an unfair and bad call for Lmp to make The Phantoms pick for him! I had no idea that The Phantom was able to have the luxury of not making a pick himself and let Lmp do it. I freaked when I turned up dead the next Day.

I still don't understand the need for the Hunter(or mod ) to have to kill the first wolf that votes for him/her. How does this make that role stronger?

[Kuruharan]

How does this make that role stronger?

Because the Hunter is an automatic termination of a wolf is why it makes the role stronger.

[littlemanpoet]

I feel bad, Naria, that you got nailed by a rule that was clear enough in my head but not communicated well.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

The logical hunter works as follows:
#1 - she can change her pick whenever she wants to
#2 - if she has picked a wolf and is attacked at night she will take her pick with her
#3 - if she has picked someone who has voted her she will take her pick with her when lynched
- so the logical hunter does not take innocents/gifteds with her when killed by the wolves nor take someone who hasn't voted her with her when lynched

Thinking out loud here:

#1- The hunter can't change her pick absolutely whenever she wants to. There has to be a point at which the moderator can say, "okay, THAT'S toNight's pick." So how does that particular rule work, then, because I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "whenever she wants to".

#2 - is the classic approach, which I'm fine with as long as it's augmented - - - which it needs to be in a Dueling Wizards game in order to balance it out against the ability of the evil wizard to create a new werewolf each Night.

#3 - I like this. And I don't like it. I like it because it gives the Hunter extra means to be effective, but I don't like it because this makes the Hunter's power a double edged sword that could cut against the good team instead of the evil team, and the good team doesn't need any more knocks against it than I've already put in the system.

I would call her the vengeful rather than logical hunter, however. To answer Naria's question in this regard, this gives the Hunter an extra way in which she can be effective.

After taking the time to thoroughly understand Nogrod's idea, I have to say 'no' for Dueling Wizards, because the good team needs strength, not unintentional double crossing. Ordinary innocents do that enough to the good wizard already.

So unless a better idea is offered for the Hunter, s/he will stay as is for the next game of Dueling Wizards that I mod.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

After taking the time to thoroughly understand Nogrod's idea, I have to say 'no' for Dueling Wizards, because the good team needs strength, not unintentional double crossing.

I see your point. If the hunter role must first of all serve the balance of power, which is not corrected otherwise, then the hunter most surely must take a wolf with her. I remember being myself also of the opinion that the baddies seem to have the upper hand in this game before it started. A powerful hunter might balance that (or at least correct it somewhat).

But then again, this kind of automatic wolf-slaying ability kind of takes the sport out of the role, as the hunter can't herself make the difference with her own gaming... The good side PM'ing would be much more efficient way to balance the game - and it would even make it more fun to play to those who are the gifteds, I suppose.

PS. - this probably should be somewhere else, but as Saucepan commented here, I would like to answer...

= Spm
The logical Hunter is, as the name suggests, logical. But I think that it makes the role less interesting. Half the fun of the role is in the risk of killing an innocent, at Night as well as during the Day.

Partly yes. But when we combine the lynchingvote-rule (being lynched, hunter will only take with her someone who has actually voted for her) to the ruling that she can change her pick at any time - practically 1 minute before the deadline - it makes that evening something to remember for the hunter! Think of your chances: pick up an innocent voter of yours and make things worse, play it safe and change your pick to someone who has not voted for you not to kill anyone, or become the hero and pick the wolf bandwaggoning on you from the lot and take the beast with you! Some heart-pumping thinking for the last hours...

[Ainaserkewen]

Holy crumbly muffins. I just wanted to take this posting oppertunity to say "Wow, it's amazing that Werewolves is still so popular."

It's been a while.

[littlemanpoet]

For First Night:

If the evil wizard and good wizard pick the same player, the player becomes a werewolf but is known to the good wizard.

What do you think?

I'm willing to go with SPM's take on the Hunter. With the Good Wizard being a virtual #1 seer and the seer being #2, the Hunter doesn't need to be yet another Seer, I suppose. But I still wish there was some way to bolster the role, even with SPM's sensible explanation in mind. *LMP shrugs*

[Valier]

I was thinking of trying my hand at Modding one of these, but I would definitely need some help, so if others are interested please pm me and we can discuss it.

[Gurthang]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

For First Night:

If the evil wizard and good wizard pick the same player, the player becomes a werewolf but is known to the good wizard.

Sounds like a pretty good plan. Be sort of like a Seer dream in that case.

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

I'm willing to go with SPM's take on the Hunter. With the Good Wizard being a virtual #1 seer and the seer being #2, the Hunter doesn't need to be yet another Seer, I suppose.

Actually, I think that's how it should be, with the Hunter basically like a Seer. The reason being is that it evens out the playing field a lot. The Evil Team at minimum has 2 chances at Night to find the GW(EW scry + at least 1 wolf kill). The Good Team, with a traditional Hunter, has at maximum 2 chances at Night to find the EW(GW scry + Seer dream, if there is a Seer). By making the Hunter basically like a Seer, it means the Good Team could have up to 3 chances each Night, just like the Evil Team would likely have 3 chances.

Think about this scenario. On Night 1 the Evil Wizard makes 3 wolves, the Good Wizard makes a Seer. Evil Team has four chances to find the GW, Good Team has 2 chances to find EW. On Night 2, the Evil Wizard makes 4 wolves (so 2 kills), the Good Wizard makes a Hunter. This would give both teams 3 chances that Night to find the opposing wizard. So you see it all works out very well, from the chances per Night look.

And if you doubt the value of chances each Night, then think about this: Roa found me on the Night she got 5 chances. And furthermore, at the moment I was found, the Evil Team had scried/killed 13 times and the Good Team had only scried/dreamed 6 times*. So Basically, she was searching the village about twice as fast as I was able to.


*This should have been 7, but actually should have been 6. Nilp should have dreamed Night 2 but didn't, so that should have been 7, but he should not have dreamed Night 4 and did, so it should be 6.

[littlemanpoet]

So what I'm beginning to conclude is Saucy's original suggestion, ratified by Gurthang, is that the Hunter needs to be stronger while the wizards live, then after the wizard battle the Hunter becomes the classic style hunter. I think I'm okay with that construction.

I'm also beginning to lean toward both Evil and Good Teams PMing ONLY at Night.

You know, I must confess that it totally escaped me that I had put in the rules that the Good Team could only PM in the Daytime; with Kuru handling all aspects, I just didn't think about it, and assumed (wrongly and stupidly) that the Good team were PMing at Night. It's something that deserves correction. I really wouldn't mind running another one of these Dueling Wizards games again some time, but you can bet I won't be writing quite the narratives.