Eldest?

[Raynor]

I think Farael has a point; in the Annals of Aman, it is stated that:

Note that 'spouse' meant only an 'association'. The Valar had no bodies, but could assume shapes. After the coming of the Eldar they most often used shapes of 'human' form, though taller (not gigantic) and more magnificent.

while in letter #200, the bodies of the valar are stated to be analoguous to our clothes.

[A_Brandybuck]

It may be another case, because Melkor lost much power or rather gave it away. His body was biological at all thinking on the wounds, which he received from Fingolfin.

[Kuruharan]

I believe the bodies of the Valar were not biologically alive when they 'inhabited' them.

At one point I also held this opinion. However, I was eventually talked out of it. Unfortunately, it was a number of years ago and I don't remember exactly what made me change my mind (in fact I don't remember for sure who it was who changed my mind ). I just have a vague recollection of an altered conviction.

I think the argument ran something along the lines of, "If the bodies the Valar inhabited were capable of engaging in humanoid activity, then they had to have been biologically alive throughout. Even the Valar could engage in these activities without becoming permanently tied to their bodies." At least, I think that was how the argument ran.

[davem]

For the 'Tom is Tolkien' crew, a correspondent in the latest Amon Hen points out that two of his names, Forn & Orald are an anagram of 'For Ronald'.

For what's its worth....

[narfforc]

Well spotted Davem, got my Amon Hen this morning.

[Boromir88]

Here's just some more food for thought. This appears in Hammond and Skull's- Lord of the Ring's Companion and is one of Tolkien's letter dated 1968:

Eldest was the courtesy title of Treebeard as the oldest surviving Ent. The Ents claimed to be the oldest 'speaking people' after the Elves {illegible} until taught the art of speech by the Elves...They were therefore placed after the dwarves in the Old List...since Dwarves had the power of speech from their awaking.

Farael, I am new to this forum (I joined 5 minutes ago), and I was EXTREMELY relieved to read your post.

About myself - I am into meditation and esoterics... internal martial arts etc...

Basically when I was young, I read LOTR and Silmarillion constantly. I'm not a big Hobbit fan, neither do I like the LOTR movies. Maybe that's just me...

Anyway, I read the Lord of The Rings constantly. More than 20 times. When I got my hands on Silmarillion, it changed things... I thought oh my God... this is the stuff... I just couldn't believe it. I must have read it even more times than LOTR, and it gave me a greater understanding and appreciation of LOTR too.

I've been doing martial arts for a long time, but in the past year have begun a heavy meditative journey and study into the esoteric, and once again I am fortunate enough to be able to see deeper and deeper into Tolkein's work... and appreciate his Mastery more and more.

I was hoping to find similar minded people here that can see the esoteric component of LOTR and Silmarillion, and Farael you've just confirmed to me that there are others out there!

Anyway, I hope to get to know all of you! This is a great forum.