General changes in TftE - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Findegil · 06-11-2006, 02:59 PM

Anotherone was found:

{Tavros} and {Tauros}[Tauron] per LQ

Respectfully
Findegil

Findegil · 11-08-2006, 12:09 PM

{Díriel}[Amros] and {Amras}[Amros] due to The Shibboleth of Fëanor and The problem of ROS.

Respectfully
Findegil

Findegil · 04-24-2007, 01:32 PM

A question arose that is best discussed here:
We have changed Maedhros to Maeðros. Does that mean that we also change Eledhwen to Eleðwen?

Respectfully
Findegil

Maédhros · 05-13-2007, 04:08 PM

Quote:

A question arose that is best discussed here:
We have changed Maedhros to Maeðros. Does that mean that we also change Eledhwen to Eleðwen?

I think that it should. After all the change of dh to ð has to be valid in general I think. Perhaps Aiwendil could know more about it?

In our version of the Fall of Gondolin, in the later part that uses the material from the Tales, Echtelion, is called Lord of the Fountain, it should be Fountains, as it is in UT.

Findegil · 05-14-2007, 09:08 AM

I have worked in the plural to title of Ecthelion.

If dh to ð is a general change then the following names must be changed:
{Eledhwen}[Eleðwen]
{Amon Rûdh}[Amon Rûð]
{Glóredhel}[Glóreðel]
{Aredhel}[Areðel]
{Bar-en-Danwedh}[Bar-en-Danweð]
{Adanedhel}[Adaneðel]
{Annon-in-Gelydh}[Annon-in-Gelyð]
{Lisgardh}[Lisgarð]
{Haudh-en-Nirnaeth}[Hauð-en-Nirnaeth]

Radhurin I would not change because I think it renders to Rad-Hurin and not to Raðuirn.

Comments to all this neames are most welcome.

Respectfully
Findegil

Aran e-Godhellim · 03-04-2009, 06:37 PM

If I may, I would suggest a reverse-change. "ð" to "dh," rather than vice-versa.

"Edh" is after all simply a single letter that represents the voiced dental fricative sound, much as "thorn" was a single letter used for the unvoiced dental fricative sound. In The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien quite consitantly used "dh" for ð, just as he used (and we use) "th" for þ. See "Caras Galadhon."

The only reason I see for retaining ð is to give the Quenta Silmarillion a more archaic feel...but if that is the case, should we not be consistant and use þ as well?

Aiwendil · 03-04-2009, 09:49 PM

The dh > ð change we've been implementing was certainly not intended to create a more archaic feel (one of our principles is that personal aesthetic considerations are not to enter into our decisions). Rather, it was motivated by Tolkien's (rather late) apparent decision to use 'ð' rather than 'dh'. (I must admit I never got around to researching whether this was indeed his latest idea, but we had been assuming it was).

You raise a good point, though: 'dh' is used throughout The Lord of the Rings. A similar case is that of 'Orc' vs. 'Ork'; Tolkien's decision to spell it with a 'k' was not taken up by our project because throughout LotR it is spelled with a 'c'. I think the 'dh' issue is the same, and we must revert to 'Maedhros', etc.

Incidentally, it's a little odd that Tolkien apparently decided on a general change of 'dh' to 'ð' but not of 'th' to 'þ', isn't it? Thus we see 'Pengoloð', etc., but never, for example, 'Þingol'.

04-24-2007, 01:32 PM	#3
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,721	A question arose that is best discussed here: We have changed Maedhros to Maeðros. Does that mean that we also change Eledhwen to Eleðwen? Respectfully Findegil Last edited by Findegil; 05-07-2007 at 05:05 AM.

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06-11-2006, 02:59 PM	#1
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,721	Anotherone was found: {Tavros} and {Tauros}[Tauron] per LQ Respectfully Findegil

11-08-2006, 12:09 PM	#2
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,721	{Díriel}[Amros] and {Amras}[Amros] due to The Shibboleth of Fëanor and The problem of ROS. Respectfully Findegil

05-14-2007, 09:08 AM	#5
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,721	I have worked in the plural to title of Ecthelion. If dh to ð is a general change then the following names must be changed: {Eledhwen}[Eleðwen] {Amon Rûdh}[Amon Rûð] {Glóredhel}[Glóreðel] {Aredhel}[Areðel] {Bar-en-Danwedh}[Bar-en-Danweð] {Adanedhel}[Adaneðel] {Annon-in-Gelydh}[Annon-in-Gelyð] {Lisgardh}[Lisgarð] {Haudh-en-Nirnaeth}[Hauð-en-Nirnaeth] Radhurin I would not change because I think it renders to Rad-Hurin and not to Raðuirn. Comments to all this neames are most welcome. Respectfully Findegil

03-04-2009, 06:37 PM	#6
Aran e-Godhellim Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: The Halls of Mandos Posts: 86	If I may, I would suggest a reverse-change. "ð" to "dh," rather than vice-versa. "Edh" is after all simply a single letter that represents the voiced dental fricative sound, much as "thorn" was a single letter used for the unvoiced dental fricative sound. In The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien quite consitantly used "dh" for ð, just as he used (and we use) "th" for þ. See "Caras Galadhon." The only reason I see for retaining ð is to give the Quenta Silmarillion a more archaic feel...but if that is the case, should we not be consistant and use þ as well?

03-04-2009, 09:49 PM	#7
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	The dh > ð change we've been implementing was certainly not intended to create a more archaic feel (one of our principles is that personal aesthetic considerations are not to enter into our decisions). Rather, it was motivated by Tolkien's (rather late) apparent decision to use 'ð' rather than 'dh'. (I must admit I never got around to researching whether this was indeed his latest idea, but we had been assuming it was). You raise a good point, though: 'dh' is used throughout The Lord of the Rings. A similar case is that of 'Orc' vs. 'Ork'; Tolkien's decision to spell it with a 'k' was not taken up by our project because throughout LotR it is spelled with a 'c'. I think the 'dh' issue is the same, and we must revert to 'Maedhros', etc. Incidentally, it's a little odd that Tolkien apparently decided on a general change of 'dh' to 'ð' but not of 'th' to 'þ', isn't it? Thus we see 'Pengoloð', etc., but never, for example, 'Þingol'.