Middle-earth Mysteries

[davem]

Originally Posted by Child of the 7th Age

Back to the original question....

Where do hobbits really come from?

The Shire mostly, but there are some in Bree.....

[Child of the 7th Age]

Naughty Davem....

Now tell me where they were in the Second Age!

[davem]

Originally Posted by Child of the 7th Age

Naughty Davem....

Now tell me where they were in the Second Age!

Hiding from lascivious Numenoreans.

[The 1,000 Reader]

Originally Posted by Child of the 7th Age

Now tell me where they were in the Second Age!

Smoking halfling weed at the equivalent of Woodstock.

[The Sixth Wizard]

Where were the Hobbits in the Second Age? Breeding with Entwives lol!!

I always thought that if Saruman was given the proper time and resources he could become a third Dark Lord, perhaps an even greater one than Sauron. Let's see how they are related:

1. They are both Maiar of Aule.
2. They could successfully breed Orcs, Saruman could effectively breed even BIGGER ones!
3. They love going among Men and bewitching them.
4. They both had a Pilantir.
5. They liked making Rings.
6. I have forgotten the other comparisons I have made.

So, if Saruman hadn't made his abode right inbetween the horses of Rohan and the Entwife-spawn hobbits of Eriador , maybe stuck himself somewhere near Mirkwood, could he have become yet another Dark Lord in the Fourth Age?

BTW, can anyone else think of more comparisons/differences between Sauron and Saruman?

[Saurreg]

I have always had an impression that Sauron was innately more powerful than Saruman hence his rise to prominence. It is thus in my opinion also that Saruman would never be as powerful as Sauron no matter the time nor the resources.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

I have always had an impression that Sauron was innately more powerful than Saruman hence his rise to prominence.

Not necessarily, I think. Remember, Sauron was Morgoth's lackey/
lieutenant/whatever, while Saruman was in Aman as, presumably,
a significant maia- since he seems to have been considered the
head of the istari (granted, mostly a ceremonial title). And once he
decided to go agaionst the prohibition put on the istari of
imposing their will on others he may well have been Sauron's equal
or superior (especially a Sauron without the Ring).

As for a Middle-earth mystery---what was the nature of the
"magic" the woodelves used on the dwarves in The Hobbit
that seems to have paralyzed them and made them unconscious
(at least Thorin).

[Saurreg]

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

Not necessarily, I think. Remember, Sauron was Morgoth's lackey/lieutenant/whatever, while Saruman was in Aman as, presumably,a significant maia- since he seems to have been considered the
head of the istari (granted, mostly a ceremonial title). And once he
decided to go agaionst the prohibition put on the istari of
imposing their will on others he may well have been Sauron's equal
or superior (especially a Sauron without the Ring).

Hello Tour In Gondolin, nice to meet you again.

As I have stated, it is only my opinion that Sauron is mightier than Saruman and this is one passage from which that opinion was formed:

"And Curunír, 'Lâr, Saruman the White, fell from his high errand, and becoming proud and impatient and enamoured of power sought to have his own will by force, and to oust Sauron; but he was ensnared by that dark spirit, mightier than he"
-From The Istari, Unfinished Tales

The dark spirit in question may refer literally to Sauron himself or perhaps figuratively the darkness that took hold of Saruman's heart. I chose to interprete it literally here.

It is true that Sauron was orignally a mäiar of Aulë who turned lieutenant of Morgoth. But Morgoth was very great in his powers and so I think that being Morgoth's direct subordinate was not proof of the lack of power but rather a statement of the disparity of power between the lord and vassal. And Sauron as we have read was very powerful himself.

Saruman was likewise a servant of higher powers. He was only considered the greatest of the five Mäiars that became the Istari, but that does not translate into comparison of his innard powers to the other supernatural beings such as Sauron, Melian or Arien.