Eorling Mead Hall Planning/Discussion Thread - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

littlemanpoet · 06-27-2006, 09:18 PM

AIM, eh?

That explains it. I'm intrigued by the talk of propriety and impropriety, honor and dishonor. I'm talking as a fellow writer, not as moderator, just so that's clear. Part of me wonders how important that was to a Rohirrim as compared to a Gondorian. Doubtless, that Degas and Linduial are upperclass would make it more important than to a lowly Rohirric craftsman. I wonder if Garstan and Linduial aren't taking it all a bit more seriously than need be? Just a fellow writer wondering....

Feel free to tell me to mind my own business if you like, it's just that I'm intrigued.

Celuien · 06-27-2006, 09:23 PM

The class standing definitely figures into Mr. Honor and Propriety bound Garstan's thoughts. He also has other reason to be really interested in Lin's doings that I can't post yet. That part of the equation explains his seriousness now, as well as his seriousness earlier at court...

So Garstan most likely is taking things a tad too seriously, but he has his reasons.

Jenny says:

"Lin's almost 18, and thus her sense of melodrama is unrivaled. Too self-conscious. And I should think the honor and dishonor of great importance to a nation of semi-nomadic warriors."

We're still on AIM...

JennyHallu · 06-27-2006, 09:26 PM

AIM is fun. But really...Lin understands what's at stake between Garstan and herself, and also (a bit more of a superficial concern here, but she is a teenage girl, in the middle of her first real romance) really doesn't want to have to deal with her brothers, who will be greatly aware of propriety and honor in the situation, especially since she's been rather minimally chaperoned.

Celuien · 06-27-2006, 09:40 PM

So anyway, that's where we were coming from.

Is there anything in particular that you think needs changing, Elempi? Say the word and I will adjust Garstan's part of the post.

littlemanpoet · 06-28-2006, 03:25 AM

Just something to consider. Whereas the noble born Linduial and Degas would be very aware of propriety and honor (must save the lady's honor for her future husband and all that), Garstan, being a humble freeman, might have a more earthy attitude toward such things. Typically in the middle ages, for example, marriage occurred after pregnancy was proven. That said, Garstan could still be quite concerned over the honor of the noble lady, the standards for whom he would know are different than those for his own class. Carry on!

Kath · 06-28-2006, 04:32 AM

Sorry, need to sort out the emailing system on this thing.

Ooh as to Kara, does she need to do anything right now?

Bêthberry · 06-28-2006, 07:39 AM

If I may step in here and comment on this most interesting discussion...

The honour and propriety bit in older times was dependant upon descreasing the worth of a family's goods and chattels, young girls being merely the property of the family, or, as LMP points out, the future husband. The concern was for damage to property, not to the personal well being of the female. As well, medieval concepts of chivalry and the like of knights and damsels and lady loves don't really pertain to Anglo Saxon culture.

Reading Tolkien's letter to his son Michael might make for some interesting discussion here on 'canonical' depictions of young women. See Letter # 46, 6 -8 March 1941, pp. 48 - 54 in the HarperCollins paperback edition of 1990. What, indeed, would Tolkien do?

06-27-2006, 09:23 PM	#2
Celuien Riveting Ribbiter Join Date: May 2005 Location: Assigned to Mordor Posts: 1,767	The class standing definitely figures into Mr. Honor and Propriety bound Garstan's thoughts. He also has other reason to be really interested in Lin's doings that I can't post yet. That part of the equation explains his seriousness now, as well as his seriousness earlier at court... So Garstan most likely is taking things a tad too seriously, but he has his reasons. Jenny says: "Lin's almost 18, and thus her sense of melodrama is unrivaled. Too self-conscious. And I should think the honor and dishonor of great importance to a nation of semi-nomadic warriors." We're still on AIM... __________________ People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect. But actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff.

06-27-2006, 09:26 PM	#3
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	AIM is fun. But really...Lin understands what's at stake between Garstan and herself, and also (a bit more of a superficial concern here, but she is a teenage girl, in the middle of her first real romance) really doesn't want to have to deal with her brothers, who will be greatly aware of propriety and honor in the situation, especially since she's been rather minimally chaperoned. __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

06-27-2006, 09:40 PM	#4
Celuien Riveting Ribbiter Join Date: May 2005 Location: Assigned to Mordor Posts: 1,767	So anyway, that's where we were coming from. Is there anything in particular that you think needs changing, Elempi? Say the word and I will adjust Garstan's part of the post. __________________ People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect. But actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff.

06-28-2006, 04:32 AM	#6
Kath Everlasting Whiteness Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Perusing the laminated book of dreams Posts: 4,533	Sorry, need to sort out the emailing system on this thing. Ooh as to Kara, does she need to do anything right now? __________________ “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

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06-27-2006, 09:18 PM	#1
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	AIM, eh? That explains it. I'm intrigued by the talk of propriety and impropriety, honor and dishonor. I'm talking as a fellow writer, not as moderator, just so that's clear. Part of me wonders how important that was to a Rohirrim as compared to a Gondorian. Doubtless, that Degas and Linduial are upperclass would make it more important than to a lowly Rohirric craftsman. I wonder if Garstan and Linduial aren't taking it all a bit more seriously than need be? Just a fellow writer wondering.... Feel free to tell me to mind my own business if you like, it's just that I'm intrigued.

06-28-2006, 03:25 AM	#5
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Just something to consider. Whereas the noble born Linduial and Degas would be very aware of propriety and honor (must save the lady's honor for her future husband and all that), Garstan, being a humble freeman, might have a more earthy attitude toward such things. Typically in the middle ages, for example, marriage occurred after pregnancy was proven. That said, Garstan could still be quite concerned over the honor of the noble lady, the standards for whom he would know are different than those for his own class. Carry on!

06-28-2006, 07:39 AM	#7
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,003	If I may step in here and comment on this most interesting discussion... The honour and propriety bit in older times was dependant upon descreasing the worth of a family's goods and chattels, young girls being merely the property of the family, or, as LMP points out, the future husband. The concern was for damage to property, not to the personal well being of the female. As well, medieval concepts of chivalry and the like of knights and damsels and lady loves don't really pertain to Anglo Saxon culture. Reading Tolkien's letter to his son Michael might make for some interesting discussion here on 'canonical' depictions of young women. See Letter # 46, 6 -8 March 1941, pp. 48 - 54 in the HarperCollins paperback edition of 1990. What, indeed, would Tolkien do?