WWJ X: Hithlum Zydeco Blues; Hísilómë in Hísimë - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

mormegil · 06-30-2006, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roa

Morm, that problem with your plan is that we have wolves in the mix. Even if we have two people watching one, we could have a wolf watching a wolf, and making the innocent look bad, or two wolves watching an innocent and making that innocent look bad, or one wolf watching an innocent and still managing to hide.... you get the point. We still can't trust anyone. At least not yet, when we don't know anything. (Ever the advantage of the wolves.)

So what really is the difference between this and the normal other than the wolves are forced to focus on few and when we detect they are deliberately making people look bad they are exposed to a seer dream or a village lynching? Afraid?

Roa_Aoife · 06-30-2006, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mormegil

So what really is the difference between this and the normal other than the wolves are forced to focus on few and when we detect they are deliberately making people look bad they are exposed to a seer dream or a village lynching? Afraid?

In this instance the wolves are better able to either redirect us, or hide. I would also like to point out that if we catch a wolf, following your plan would inhibit our ability to review his/her interactions to find the others. Not only that, but it prevents the villagers (campers) from looking in all directions, thus putting blinders on them and forcing to only look in a specified direction. One person may pick up what all others would miss.

Who is making the assignments? You? How do we know you're not wolf, and that you won't keep you or one of your fellows covered like that? Also, as people get lynched, different villagers will be left unguarded, and so slip under the radar, which is exactly what you say you mean to prevent with this plan in the first place. It may have looked good at first, but there are too many flaws in it to work right.

Afraid? I'm afraid of the limits your idea would place on our ability to think for ourselves.

Formendacil · 07-01-2006, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Afraid? I'm afraid of the limits your idea would place on our ability to think for ourselves.

Most of the great Morm-plans of Werewolf have had a tendency to do that...

Seriously, it's really a great comfort to see Morm being his normal, grand scheming self... it means he's perfectly normal, albeit a bit early. This sort of behaviour doesn't usually set in until Day 3ish...

Morm's plan, however, changes little about the real village dynamics.

The Wolves are still intent on deceiving everybody, and everybody is still intent on finding them. The Innocents are still going to bark up entirely the wrong trees, and the Wolves are still going to get caught by the most absurd things.

It might even benefit the wolves to follow Morm's plan. Instead of having to deceive a whole village, each wolf only really has to deceive two people- a potentially much easier task.

Really, I don't see much of a benefit to the village... In fact, the only REAL difference that I'm seeing is that it allows Morm to play organizer. While the chances of Morm being Wolvish are nearly nil in my opinion... the possibility is enough to make me shy away from his grand scheme...

Okay, enough replies now... Off to the other forums, and then to bed. Back before the deadline, I hope.

Unless someone makes a reply in the next little bit, of course.

Mithalwen · 07-01-2006, 04:27 AM

Hello...... time for token in character post "Here kitty, kitty, kitty..."

Too hot, too sleepy and too soon to get into analysis and random observations are more my thing so...

Form giving his spiel re day ones seems a little too formulaic... he did it last time we played but just seems maybe a bit contrived. He was innocent then btu know I wonder if he is trying to set up one of those "just x being x" type assumptions. Not saying a huge suspicion .. just something to look at...

As Roa, and Nogrod have pointed out ..day ones can be very productive. The number of Fenris wolves bear that out. Given the unusual day 1 scenario.... with wolves pming privately between themselves as they speak openly to us all and a seer getting their dream.. there may be more stuff to watch out for than usual.

Going to have another read.. then perhaps another post before a few hours of arpeggios and a longer spell online with more to look at....

Mithalwen · 07-01-2006, 04:43 AM

V quick cos I have 3 inutes left on the library pc...

dun likd Morms plan ... if I get another time slot I will expalin...
Glirdan - I don't know if wolves like music ..their singing leaves a lot to be desired. But cats love music just ask Signor Rossini!

Mithalwen · 07-01-2006, 05:25 AM

Sorry about the triple post but - seemingly I am talking to myself .... or just to my cats...

This is a small village with so far few posts. I can't help thinking that everyone looking at everyone else is so much more likely to produce results at this stage. Also, speaking personally, given that I don't know that anyone else is innocent, I would prefer to read for myself even if there were hundreds of posts. We don't know that the designated analyst is not trying to put a spin on their interpretation.

Analysis is all very well when it produces some insight but too often what people claim to be analyses are merely summaries which clutter the thread. Without these reports it would be easier for the other players to read what X actually said rather than what Y said X said. Screeds of "analysis" are often used as smoke machines by wolves.

The other factor is that instinct can be as useful as logic and certain people read some people better than others either because they know them very well or becasue they know them little and aren't so bound by prejudice. How to allocate watchers to best advantage? Also some people have an near uncanny ability to spot wolves. If Valier, for example, is innocent and on form the last thing we want to do is cramp her style.

Later in a huge game, there might be a case for dividing the burden of post review, but not here, not now..

Macalaure · 07-01-2006, 05:27 AM

I'll be off the computer for a while now and cannot promise to be back before the deadline.

Random vote (believe it or not):

++ Nogrod

I really hope to be able to retract and cast a new vote with at least a little reason later.

mormegil · 07-01-2006, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Random vote (believe it or not):

I never do. This is one thing upon which I agree with Formen; votes tend not to be random no matter what the voter says.

Nice to see that once again my plan is mere drivel. It does seem a decent idea to me and I can see both advantages and some disadvantages but I am trying to help, unlike some

. Kuru asked for more than inane first day role playing and banter and I think I provided some of that as some serious disussion was given, not much but some.

On the other hand, Formendacil seems to be able to carry our conversations away into the ever productive topic of hating first days. Always a lot of good comes from such conversations. Formen you complain about innocents being lynched for specious reasoning, yet you are a catalyst for many of these lynching due to your constant maunderings about day 1. Inevitably you get WW zealots trying to convert you into loving it and day one is spent being utterly unproductive because the conversation is spent around it...now you have me talking about it

.

++Glirdan

Call it 'random'

No, his vote stuck out to me and his willingness to jump on the Formen suspicion train was startling.

07-01-2006, 04:27 AM	#4
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	Hello...... time for token in character post "Here kitty, kitty, kitty..." Too hot, too sleepy and too soon to get into analysis and random observations are more my thing so... Form giving his spiel re day ones seems a little too formulaic... he did it last time we played but just seems maybe a bit contrived. He was innocent then btu know I wonder if he is trying to set up one of those "just x being x" type assumptions. Not saying a huge suspicion .. just something to look at... As Roa, and Nogrod have pointed out ..day ones can be very productive. The number of Fenris wolves bear that out. Given the unusual day 1 scenario.... with wolves pming privately between themselves as they speak openly to us all and a seer getting their dream.. there may be more stuff to watch out for than usual. Going to have another read.. then perhaps another post before a few hours of arpeggios and a longer spell online with more to look at.... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

07-01-2006, 04:43 AM	#5
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	V quick cos I have 3 inutes left on the library pc... dun likd Morms plan ... if I get another time slot I will expalin... Glirdan - I don't know if wolves like music ..their singing leaves a lot to be desired. But cats love music just ask Signor Rossini! __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

07-01-2006, 05:25 AM	#6
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	Sorry about the triple post but - seemingly I am talking to myself .... or just to my cats... This is a small village with so far few posts. I can't help thinking that everyone looking at everyone else is so much more likely to produce results at this stage. Also, speaking personally, given that I don't know that anyone else is innocent, I would prefer to read for myself even if there were hundreds of posts. We don't know that the designated analyst is not trying to put a spin on their interpretation. Analysis is all very well when it produces some insight but too often what people claim to be analyses are merely summaries which clutter the thread. Without these reports it would be easier for the other players to read what X actually said rather than what Y said X said. Screeds of "analysis" are often used as smoke machines by wolves. The other factor is that instinct can be as useful as logic and certain people read some people better than others either because they know them very well or becasue they know them little and aren't so bound by prejudice. How to allocate watchers to best advantage? Also some people have an near uncanny ability to spot wolves. If Valier, for example, is innocent and on form the last thing we want to do is cramp her style. Later in a huge game, there might be a case for dividing the burden of post review, but not here, not now.. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

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07-01-2006, 05:27 AM	#7
Macalaure Fading Fëanorion Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: into the flood again Posts: 2,911	I'll be off the computer for a while now and cannot promise to be back before the deadline. Random vote (believe it or not): ++ Nogrod I really hope to be able to retract and cast a new vote with at least a little reason later.