WWJ X: Hithlum Zydeco Blues; Hísilómë in Hísimë

[Valier]

Baddies

Kuru
Eomer
Form
Morm
Roa
Mith

Goodies

Kitanna
Jenny
Noggie
Mac
Me
Glirdan

Sorry I don't have time for my thoughts on each. I may be back to change my vote, I may not.


++Formendabras (Form)

His first Day rants are always a good cover for a Wolf.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Valier, while I have undeniable evil tendencies, I resent being lumped together with 5 others on the 'Baddies' side when there are but 3 wolves.

Formendacil, your stance is just so puzzling. There's oodles to think about here. You just have to wait until quite near the end of Day One.

[Nogrod]

Why do these football matches have to go to overtime & penalty shoot-outs all the time? (And have both metaphysically & poetically the "wrong results"!)

And it greatly distracts werewolf-playing...

A quick one first.

Kitanna has made me quite alarmed of her. Her way of bringing this quite ungrounded (surely it's thinkable) "loose theory" of Form, Roa & myself just in passing (but repeated) - and in the end not acting on it, but taking the "safe vote" for Glirdy seems quite wolvish to me. So she wishes to cast suspicion over some active players (Roa and me) linking them with somene who has been suspected already (Form), and then actually votes for another largely suspected one (Glirdy), cleaning her tracks nicely.

Back soon as I get to read a few things more carefully.

EDIT: X-posted with a couple of posts

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Jenny

and Morm always takes it personally that people don't like being told what to do.

I love the stigma I have attached to me that I take everything personally . I realize the irony in saying this too. No Jenny I put forward a simple plan to get things moving and it helped. I know that nobody ever buys into these plans on day 1 because some think that the person with the plan must be a wolf otherwise why would a plan be presented. Others feel it short-sighted, and some have this crazy notion that because an idea is presented that person must want to control everybody in the village and nobody think for themselves.

[mormegil]

Sorry for the double..didn't want to edit.

I think the Formendacil campaign is borderline madness. I really don't see him as a wolf but rather as plain old Formen Day 1 hater and active at telling us so.

[Nogrod]

So far we are here:

Formendacil 3 (Glirdan I, Roa IV, Valier VII)
Nogrod 1 (Macalaure II)
Glirdan 2 (Morm III, Kitanna VI)
Mormegil 1 (Eomer V)
Eomer 1 (Kuru VIII)

My guts say that Form is innocent. But Roa had a good point on her analysis on him and that's why I'm not sure. (Well, when one is sure about anything in a WW-game?)

Glirdan seems to be his normal self too. A bit careless and making odd turns and twists when he goes.

But of the other votees right now I know myself to be innocent and am inclined to view Morm as an innocent too.
----------------
EDIT: Eomer fits in the description of maintaining a presence but not actually saying anything. Good wolf tactics.
----------------
Kind of a dilemma here? At least for me it is...

Both Glirdy and Macalaure have thrown in the "random-vote" -stuff. That I always find suspicious, because - as Form has called repeatedly - the voting record is quite important thing. By claiming to use a random-vote one kind of washes his/her hands from the vote made. Very wolvish or at least wolf-helping... (think of everyone just saying their votes were random on Day1!)

I talked about my uneasiness about Kitanna in my earlier post.

I also share my worries with Jenny about Kuruharan. Being present but said little (that description surely is shared by many others), but Kuru's masquerade bothers me a bit - it might be just good fun (and I would be first to appreciate it as such), but as I said earlier, masks are the wolves best friends.

Some Brasil - France now and then back again...

[JennyHallu]

For now, at least, I'm going to vote

++Kuruharan

May change. Not sure.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Nogrod, may I ask just what makes the things most other players have been saying so much more fantastical and important than what I have said? It's true, I've not said too much. Though there may be much to think about on Day One, there's only so much original stuff any one player can inject into proceedings. As far as I can see, I have hit upon an idea (about Morm's vote) that no-one else has. So how does that make me "not saying anything"?

And I've deliberately kept my posts short and clear so that people might be tempted to consider what's in them. Too many words muddy the waters.

[Mithalwen]

Oh Valier has out me on the baddie list ...don't know whether to be flattered or insulted. Not yet on form clearly but at least I am in good company. Or perhaps really bad company. However, I can't help but think that her vote for Form is reasonable enough for day one (ref my earlier post) however as another Canadian he may have RL concerns too. However Wolves are not above voting for a colleaugue who has become conspicuous. Hmm. This is a very quiet camp and so today is likely to be fairly random. Huncehs may be the only way to go..

teh positive aspect of having such a strong group of players is at least it should discourage lazy voting. In many games there is a player or two who people can persuade themselves to vote for not because they find them especially suspicious but because they find them confusing, and if they turn out to be innocent there is at least the small grief-dividend that at least that person won't be around to mess with their heads.... I hope noone will vote too casually. I am uneasy about Form but I don't know if I am uneasy enopugh to vote for him yet. Of course if he ends up being the person who makes me most uneasy .....

OK know even I thinkI am rambling... will read again and hope theere is new material

As for your questions Noggin : 1, Dont know/care. 2, my grief is controllable 3, no it doesn't

[Kuruharan]

I'm going to go ahead and vote...

++ Eomer of the Rohirrim

Mainly because he's not been around...much, and I can't think of anything better to do. I don't really want to join the Signore Formendacil bandwagon (although, mama mia, if he does turn out to be a wolf that will be awkward). I'm even less comfortable with the Signore Glirdan campaign.

WARNING: Vote under pressure and may change with little warning.

[mormegil]

Oops. Sorry.

Glirdan voted Formendacil (Formendacil 1)
Macalaure voted Nogrod(Formendacil 1, Nogrod 1,)
Mormegil voted Glirdan (Formendacil 1, Glidan 1, Nogrod 1)
Roa voted Formendacil (Formendacil 2, Glirdan 1, Nogrod 1)
Eomer voted Mormegil (Formendacil 2, Glirdan 1, Mormegil 1, Nogrod 1)
Kitanna voted Glirdan (Formendacil 2, Glirdan 2, Mormegil 1, Nogrod 1 )
Valier voted Formendacil (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 2, Mormegil 1 Nogrod 1)
Kuru voted Eomer (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 2, Mormegil 1, Eomer 1, Nogrod 1)
Jenny voted Kuru (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 2, Mormegil 1, Eomer 1, Kuru 1,Nogrod 1 )
Formendacil voted Glirdan (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 3, Mormegil 1, Eomer 1, Kuru 1, Nogrod )
Nogrod voted Kitanna (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 3, Mormegil 1, Eomer 1, Kuru 1, Kitanna 1, Nogrod 1)
Mithalwen voted Glirdan (Formendacil 3, Glirdan 4, Mormegil 1, Eomer 1, Kuru 1, Kitanna 1, Nogrod 1)

Any other mistakes

That makes a lot more sense now. I was wondering why Formendacil declared himself and thought it a bit foolish. Anyway most of the thoughts stay the same. Mithalwen still could be a wolf knowing that she was 'saving' the seer to kill an innocent, either way it was sixes for the wolves because they get to kill the seer at day or night.

Oh, I challenge the wolves to have the courage to leave me alive for at least one more day. Unless you fear a challenge.

[JennyHallu]

#12

In character goofiness and then a defense of day 1. Not a big deal, not very telling.

#39

She's here! she says. Hellos and thanks-for-noticings. Not a big deal, not very telling.

#40

Ok, I know this is in the post, but here, again, is her good and bad list. I have added italics for known innocents, underlines for dead people.

Baddies

Kuru
Eomer
Form
Morm
Roa
Mith

Goodies

Kitanna
Jenny
Noggie
Mac
Me
Glirdan

Now this is a day 1 list, I don't know how significant it is, but I want to compare it with the one we got today.

Her vote for Form is based on the idea that his rant could be good cover...nothing more concrete than that?

#78

I'm not keeping her notes, just generally sorting. You can check the post and see if I'm right.

Baddies
Eomer
Kuru

Not-Sures
Mac
Mith
Jenny
Kitanna

Innocents
Morm
Noggie

Seems to be consistent, at least.

I'm inclined to think Val innocent as of yet. At the very least I have no reasons not to. Don't like her voting reasons, but I don't expect long explanations from Val. Oh well.

[JennyHallu]

However, most are short.

#26, #27, #28

The middle one makes almost no sense.

First is a day 1 defense.

Attacks analyses. Uhoh.

Nothing jumps out at me. I agree with Noggie on Mith: when she's calm, she's probably innocent. Gifted or Wolvish she gets jumpy. However, she's really made no contributions, and despite the fact that she seems to have found more time, none of the promised explanation of her suspicions is forthcoming.

#41

Says she's here, nothing else relevant.

#48

Says she's uneasy about Form. First thing to a concrete contribution we've received. Explanation, of course, would be too much to ask.

#60

Vote for Noggie, retracted to Glirdan.

The retraction is clear, but why Noggie? only mention or interaction you've had with Noggie is joking about football vs. tennis.

Skipping the shouting, on to day 2.

#83, #84

There were reasons for Noggie? Great! Will you repost them? Apparently not. 84 seems merely to be clarification.

Mith really feels fairly innocent...but then...why no reasoning, thoughts, input? She's on my suspect list, but low on it.

[mormegil]

Currently I am going to give Eomer the benefit of my doubt. His response to Nogrod was decent enough to stay my vote. However, I would recommend not forgetting him and keeping him under a microscope, so to speak.

Valier still doesn't sit well with me. I've learned that ususally it's not the people who look the most guilty that are indeed guilty, wish that I had heeded that advice on Glirdan...you know the greatest thing about being a known innocent is I can say anything I want without any worry

++Valier

I will likely be back and may change my vote but in case I don't get back I wanted to get my vote out there.

[Kuruharan]

(Pass the Chianti, per favore. Grazie! Ahhh…that helps.)

After carefully reading through all of today’s posts Signore Macalaure strikes me as being ever more bizarre. Now as the enlightened among you, who have studied my marvelous werewolfing history at great length, know…I always tend to view strong defenses with a certain degree of favor. But this…

I am not defensive. Not at all! And I am not tense.
-Macalaure post # 80

…really seems a bit much.

Also, could somebody please explain to me the point this ragazzo was trying to make with this…

Well, of course Form didn't make his seerness so clear - he's not suicidal. If it had been clear, presumably no wolf would have bothered voting for him. Instead they would have silently finished him off in the night. His being a seer was not obvious and this is good for us, because the reasons given for his lynching were intentionally or unintentionally wrong. If we can sever the two, we might catch a wolf, but I have doubts that we can.
-Macalaure post # 80

None of this follows or makes any sense. If Signore Formendacil had made his seerness clear during the DAY, the wolves would have had every reason in the world to vote for him early and often so they could kill him as soon as possible and have the NIGHT to pick off innocents. And I don’t see that the last section of his paragraph means anything at all. This whole post just strikes me as a whole lot of sound and fury signifying nothing…exactly as a werewolf would do.

I have almost come to the point of revising yesterday’s opinion about Signore Eomer. His behavior was so out of character for him that I find it hard to believe that he might be a wolf. Unfortunately, I can also see the other side of that coin all too well and that was the side that was up for me yesterDAY (mainly because I couldn’t think of anything else). He has been more normal today. If we want to kill him toDAY just to be on the safe side, I could probably be all for that. However, I’m probably going to vote for Signore Macalaure.

Addio.

[Roa_Aoife]

OKay, I'm back, for a little bit.

A defense of her vote yesterday. Why should she feel defensive?

Because I nearly got the seer lynched. Imagine myreaction when I Logged back on today and read through everything I missed, only to find that I once again had suspected the seer. (I can never spot the seer as a wolf, but I always suspect of them of being wolves when I'm innocent. )

Moving on, Nogrod is sending off warning bells. Sure, strong agressive attacks were once his hallmark, but he made a point about toning that down. Now he attacks Eomer for not making a vote that he himself wouldn't make. If Nogrod was around at the end like he claims, why didn't he make a vote to save Form after Glirdan's vote?

Scolding others for doing nothing when he himself did nothing? It seems like he's trying to hide his own guilt by loudly pointing it out in others. He may have let up now, but that doesn't change what he did. If anything, it bears the mark of flip-flopping.

Also, I find it odd that everyone is saying, "Mith is being calm, she must be innocent." In truth, Mith freaks out when she's a gifted, but not when she's a wolf. (No offense.) As a wolf, she's as calm and reasonable as she ever is. Or at least that's how she was in the only game where I saw her as a wolf, and I was a wolf with her.

[Macalaure]

None of this follows or makes any sense. If Signore Formendacil had made his seerness clear during the DAY, the wolves would have had every reason in the world to vote for him early and often so they could kill him as soon as possible and have the NIGHT to pick off innocents.

Or, they could have left the killing of innocents to the innocents and kill Form at night. Same outcome, no fingerprints.

And I don’t see that the last section of his paragraph means anything at all. This whole post just strikes me as a whole lot of sound and fury signifying nothing…exactly as a werewolf would do.

*sigh* I made a joke, so lynch me...


The banter between Eomer and Nogrod leaves me with a strange feeling. Eomer's defense made some sense and leaves Nogrod accusation in a bad light. But if Nogrod is a wolf, would he be so loud about this topic? He has put all our noses into his yesterDay's vote. This could have easily backfired, and it did backfire a bit.

edit: cross-posted with Kitanna.

[Macalaure]

Ah, I'm sorry. I misread your post, Kuru.

You meant this part:

Originally Posted by me

His being a seer was not obvious and this is good for us, because the reasons given for his lynching were intentionally or unintentionally wrong. If we can sever the two, we might catch a wolf, but I have doubts that we can.

Yes, on second thought I have to say that my first thoughts got a little mixed up. I was just doubtful of your "The upshot of this is I’m not sure how much we can read into the people who were going after him." What I wanted to say is, that, since Form is now proven innocent all the reasons given for his lynching yesterday are wrong. If a wolf was among the voters, s/he knew they were wrong. That is what I meant with intentional or unintentional. Of course, the same holds for the Glirdan-voters. It has nothing to do with Form's seerness but with his being innocent. I'm sorry.

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Moving on, Nogrod is sending off warning bells. Sure, strong agressive attacks were once his hallmark, but he made a point about toning that down. Now he attacks Eomer for not making a vote that he himself wouldn't make. If Nogrod was around at the end like he claims, why didn't he make a vote to save Form after Glirdan's vote?

Scolding others for doing nothing when he himself did nothing? It seems like he's trying to hide his own guilt by loudly pointing it out in others. He may have let up now, but that doesn't change what he did. If anything, it bears the mark of flip-flopping.

I'm glad you brought that up Roa, because I wouldn't have caught it. But what I do find interesting is the fact Nogrod is urging everyone who was around to change their votes to follow the path he saw fit. He seems to have taken it on himself to pick the paths of this village. He's not "blaming" Eomer for not helping in saving Glirdan, but that all looks very fishy. Nogrod said he didn't find Form or Glirdan guilty, but obviously some people did because they voted for them. However near the end of the day and toDay Nogrod is saying we, as a village, should have tried to save them, but by switching our votes to who? It's impossible for every single person who voted Form or Glirdan to be a wolf, so the innocents who voted must have thought they were voting for a wolf and Form last vote declared his innocence and Glirdan's death declared his. I don't like how Nogrod is acting on the whole affair.

Also looking to Form's post about Day 1, I didn't feel it was much to suspect Form on and when I did suspect Form it was because of the responses (mainly from Roa and Nogrod) that I suspected wolfish activity and I still do.

Form's Day One post and the reactions
After Form's first post Kuru mentioned we should all give our best ideas in helping to catch the wolf. A few others mentioned how terrible day one is, but Nogrod was the first to really attack what Form said. He claimed acting like that was just an excuse to be lazy and Nogrod brings up an example of a past game, but remember this isn't a past game. This is played with new players and different roles, a past game has no real bearing here.

Kuru calls attention to Form and suggests maybe he's trying to lead us down a path as a wolfish tactic.

It seems to me that perhaps Signore Formendacil could be acting just a shade manipulative. His predictions could be a cleverly concealed tactic to direct behavior in a particular direction...since once predictions are announced, people have a tendency to perversely do the opposite. However, this might speak in his favor since he's lamenting...

Clearly this swayed some people because the next post was Glirdan putting in his vote for Form. Looks rather bad that Kuru was the one to sway an innocent villager into voting for Form. I don't think Kuru said that with the intent of someone quickly jumping on it to vote, but it's noteworthy.

Roa was the next to really say something about Form's Day One post.

Anf frankly, Form, if you think it ought to be obvious that Day 1's are useless, why bother stating it? Face facts- those who think they are useless will continue to think so. Those who think they aren't will continue to do so. The only thing statements like yours do is sidetrack us from the problem at hand.

Reasonable enough, but unneeded. Nogrod makes the next post and says he agrees with what Roa had said about Day Ones. He then keeps going about this and that, when a simple I agree could have worked.

Think of a village inhabitated with 15 Forms! Everyone would just exclaim how stupid saying anything is. How could they decide their votes on any Day? Their Day1 would become Day2, Day3 etc... And surely, they would have made sure, that their votes had been in random, because there is nothing to go for... understandably.

Complete overkill on what Form said. The next post was a quick statement from Roa saying it was time to move on from the arguement about Day 1.

Form responds to what Nogrod has said, a defense of what he said.

Mith is the next and says what Form has said is too formulaic. Points out that Roa and Nogrod are both right that Day 1 can be productive. I come on next and make my Form/Nogrod/Roa theory based on the rebuttles of Nogrod and Roa to Form's post.

Looking at all that I now have three suspects.
1) Nogrod- For his constant return to Day 1 can be productive and Form you're wrong, and so on. Nogrod said he thought Form was innocent, but he drew a lot of attention to him with his Day 1 thing. Also for his thoughts that people should have changed their votes to save two "likely innocents" at the end of the day. I don't like the way he is trying to tell us what we should have done. He goes after Eomer for not changing his vote when he was around near the end. I'd like to hear from Eomer in the subject. And finally to agree with what Roa said, he made no action on his own end of the day plan.

2) Kuru- A distant second to Nogrod. The main reason I suspect Kuru is because his post about Form trying to stir us down a path is what caused Glirdan to start up the Form bandwagon. It was a slight accusation, but enough to influence someone else which may have been Kuru's plan.

3) Roa- I'm just following up on what I said yesterday. Her and Nogrod's rebuttles to Form still have me worried. Though that's all I have to go on right now.

[Nogrod]

Roa, I'm beginning to suspect that I have found the third wolf now...
Yes, I'm not at all sure about Eomer or Kitanna - they have been the only ones I have had something to note or suspect on.

But sincerely , look at this post Roa made! It's just a mild attack that in the same time works as her own cover-up. Oh my. And what the "attack" is made of? intentional misunderstandings and pure rhetorics (partly false them too).

Let's make an analysis on a couple of nice ones.

Sure, strong agressive attacks were once his hallmark, but he made a point about toning that down.

She calls my speculation on Eomer a "strong agressive attack"? C'mon Roa! You know very well yourself, what I can do... and what is a strong aggressive attack in the first place - I've seen you build them too. Then as you have yourself labelled my thoughts of Eomer as a strong attack, you accuse me of being inconsistent or suspicious because I have said I'm toning down. Nice Roa. Very nice. Oh how suspicious!

Now he attacks Eomer for not making a vote that he himself wouldn't make. If Nogrod was around at the end like he claims, why didn't he make a vote to save Form after Glirdan's vote?

First of all, an intentional misunderstanding. I didn't say Eomer should have "rescued" either Form or Glirdy. That was the whole point! We would have needed more people on the place to make a difference. I couldn't save them both and he couldn't have saved them both. So also asking why I didn't save Form is just continuing on the wrong tracks. So wishing to make me look like a culprit to the tragedy of yesterday (being herself one of those who voted for Form/Glirdy). Nice move Roa.
But even nicer to come: Roa says

If Nogrod was around at the end like he claims

. Well You know, there are people who speak or tell things (truthfully) and then there are people who just "claim" something. So I'm also the one who just claims being somewhere or done something. Very untrusty guy this Nogrod fellow, isn't he? Unfortunately you can check the last ten minutes of the last night. I was there. I don't only claim to have been there. The real problem is, that there were no others...

Scolding others for doing nothing when he himself did nothing? It seems like he's trying to hide his own guilt by loudly pointing it out in others.

And again, nice rhetorical twists turning from a misguided interpretation of what I have said to totally unwarranted inference about my guilt. But that looks nice (you should write speeches to politicians running for office - to paint the competitors black). No one could have made the difference there alone! Go check the situation yourself for God's sake and stop being intentionally misleading. It's annoying (or then evil - you Roa know which one of these it is in your case). Some people here had voted stupidly and then refused to come back to help us out from the situation. To wolves that's just great, but for us others not.

He may have let up now, but that doesn't change what he did. If anything, it bears the mark of flip-flopping

And Bingo! She got the word "flip-flopping" included in the post! Yes, that Nogrod is also a flip-flopper! First of all, the accusation is wrong as I have tried to explain here. But secondly - and I think even more importantly, it's there to rouse suspicion (because everyone is so confident that anything someone names flip-floppy is bad). So ungrounded rhetorics once again.

Roa I have been pondering so far whether I could try to trust you on this game - it would be just so totally improbable that you were a baddie again. But as you are here trying to make a mountain out of a molehill just using only rhetorical means and intentionally misguided interpretations, and as I happen to know that their target is innocent, I'm getting somewhat alarmed. If you would be an ordo just missing the mark, you would have had been sharper, more intelligent, seeing actual connections or slips or whatever. Here you had none.

Okay. Too much talk that misses the mark. I'll try to do something more constructive for a while.

EDIT: X-posted with a lot!

[Kitanna]

I need to vote and then go to work, so this is the last for the day.

++ Nogrod

I have stated my reasons and after looking at his defense of Roa's post I'm not swayed toward thinking him innocent. He says Roa is trying to cover her own tracks in going after him, that makes sense, but I don't think that's unnatural. Everyone in this game wants to cover there tracks, innocents and wolves alike, no one wants to be lynched.

So because of all I've said earlier I vote for Nogrod now. Good-bye and good luck village.

[Nogrod]

Not all who voted for Form & Glirdy were wolves. Right.

But accusing someone of trying to be at the place and make a difference is dishonest when one is in the first instance guilty of the things that happened.

To whom this was good? To the wolves. Who would not like to come and try? The wolves again.

Who would like to pour all this down on me? The wolves (or very pathetic villagers trying to bury their own feelings of guilt).

Think also of the following: what on earth was I doing there at the end of Day1, getting myself into all this trouble? A nice vote at least six hours before the deadline - to Glirdy or Form f.ex. - and nobody would have raised an eyebrow.

EDIT: X-posted with Kitanna (Roa's rhetorics seem to work...)