What does it mean to Write in the Spirit of Tolkien?

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by davem

Its certianly significant that when (predominantly male) characters 'fall in love' with a Lady it is love at first sight - they don't actually know the Lady as a person - she is a symbol of beauty, of perfection, which she embodies for the male (Frodo, Gimli, Aragorn, Beren). In a real sense then, they don't 'love' her at all, because they don't know her. It is perhaps, in the Jungian sense, an 'Anima' projection. She symbolises the Other, the Unknown, the Unconscious, 'Mystery'. I think this is why sexual desire is absent - or more probably is subsumed into overwhelming feelings of awe, of 'worship'.

Yet, in LotR at least, Galadriel the woman is not 'worthy' of Gimli's worship - she is an unforgiven rebel, one who sought power & control over others. She is actually an Elf-Woman, clad in simple white - something Frodo comes to see after the incident at the Mirror, but which Gimli never does see. Frodo's 'projection' is withdrawn at that point & he sees her for what she truly is - Gimli's projection never is.

For Tolkien, however, Galadriel is always an Elf-Woman, clad in simple white - he never 'worships' her. In showing the withdrawing of Frodo's projection onto her he makes plain who & what she is, & tells us plainly that there is something else going on with Gimli.

This is a fascinating view, davem, and a very seductive one. However, like many theories, it is one which cannot fit all the details.

How would, for instance, this idea of the projected Jungian anima fit Gilgamesh? You are positing a sublimation of sexuality here which accords with the story at hand, but is this sublimation in accord with Jung? I don't know Jung well enough to say if you are retooling his idea to suit this story or not.

Also, you seem to conflate the Galadriel of The Silm with the Galadriel of LotR. The latter has much less of the unforgiven rebel in her. Even with the hints of the Legendarium in LotR, I'm not sure it is appropriate to "bring in" those details. A bit too much analysis?

Furthermore, Aragorn will not contenance any harsh words about Galadriel--"Speak no evil of..." What would it suggest if the future king never rids himself of this 'projection' while Frodo does? For your idea--and it is a very attractive idea--to be fully at play one would expect to see Aragorn also come to this position. Or perhaps this is a problem with so many heroes? We must wait until later to see how Aragorn handles his Lady?

Nor do I think it is quite in agreement with the textual descriptions of Galadriel to say that for Tolkien she is always just an elf-woman. Until the scene with the mirror, the text, if I am not mistaken, fully invites the reader to partake of the mystification of the Lady which these males fall under (or into?). What changes in the Mirror scene is Galadriel herself, who allows that in Frodo she has met her match in courtesy at least. It is she who refuses the offer to be loved by all and who, in rejecting the Ring, allows Frodo to see the plain elf woman.

The Mirror scene is remarkable, for it is meant to be an encounter with the goddess. The symbolism of the round bowl, the water, the seeing-beyond, the roiling waters turning to steam which curl around the edges of the open bowl, all suggest a highly charged experience between the two. And Galadriel is changed as is Frodo, who sees the eye of the One. The goddess is unthroned to become simply "a living vision of that which has already been left far behind by the flowing stream of Time".

In Tolkien's vision, the female principle, in standing in for elves, is the one reduced, diminished. That much of the development of monotheism Tolkien seems to have recognised.