LotR2-TTT-Seq13

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

That is a good point about Saruman wanting to use Helm's Deep himself, after he had won the war.

Sometimes, fantasy can look a little lame, though, when we see how freakin' amazing and unstoppable! something different to swords and spears are. Don't get me wrong, I much prefer the old-style of battles. But today's audience can see that scene and ask Well, if one little magic explosion — a bomb, by another name — is so amazing and deadly in fantasy land, why didn't the bad guy just use a load of them?

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Sometimes, fantasy can look a little lame, though, when we see how freakin' amazing and unstoppable! something different to swords and spears are. Don't get me wrong, I much prefer the old-style of battles. But today's audience can see that scene and ask Well, if one little magic explosion — a bomb, by another name — is so amazing and deadly in fantasy land, why didn't the bad guy just use a load of them?

Even Superman is weakened by Kryptonite. Saruman's bomb production was non-magical, unlike his orcs, and untested. He may have been limited by the amount of raw materials on hand. Plus, I think that Saruman creates the bombs when Wormtongue returns to Orthanc. He could have started creating the bombs first and ended up with ten thousand of them, but may have made only 10 Uruks, and so that wouldn't have worked.

Plus, this devilry from Isengard worked so well as no one knew what those large spikey containers were, and also seemingly these devices need the 'running orc' to detonate them. Even an Elf would figure out that he/she should shoot any Uruk with an odd torch after that...

I think that the reason that the bombs are so effective is that they are placed in the culvert/tunnel underneath the wall. Not sure if they would have had the same devastating effect next to the wall. Also, using them against the gate may have made matters worse for the attackers. It could have brought the wall down on top of the ramp and/or destroyed the ramp. Did Saruman use the bombs only as a way of breaching the wall as he wanted to both capture the fortress and, as stated, keep it as intact as possible?

I would note that in the EA game, the Uruks have more bombs in carts, and these are continually used against them.

[Essex]

My only views on the warg fight is that it was well done - But this scene is a bit superfluos to me - the only plot element it gives us is that Aragorn realises there are thousands or orcs on the way later on when he jounreys to helms deep.

It was well put together and looks life like. The scenes of Helms Deep look very good as well. except for them two flipping kids reuniting with their mother that makes me cringe, and the two boys playing sword fighting as eoywn comes into the gates of helms deep - the way the boy looks around for his cue to run off looks really badly staged and drags me out of Middle-earth every time I see it....

Eoywn's face as she finds out Aragorn 'Fell' is very well acted - a picture (or a look maybe) can paint a thousand words....

Saruman looks very hagard as he walks away from the explosive mixture he's putting together (watch that flame, Grima!) - but then perks up as he's presented with his 'Nuremberg' scene - This is why the orcs where organised together in groups on the fields of Isengard - to make it look like Hitler's rally at Nuremburg.

The tear on Wormtounge's cheek, is purely because he is overwhelmed by Saruman's forces - and positively so - there is no sorrow here for the world of Men from Grima. But we've discussed this tear quite a lot in this forum so I won't go too indepth into it, LOL!!!!

[Macalaure]

The tear on Wormtounge's cheek, is purely because he is overwhelmed by Saruman's forces - and positively so - there is no sorrow here for the world of Men from Grima. But we've discussed this tear quite a lot in this forum so I won't go too indepth into it, LOL!!!!

But since it still belongs into this thread I can't resist to comment on it.

I am of opposite opinion. Surely he is awed: He sees an Uruk army which he didn't think was possible to exist.
But then he realises what this force is able to do - and destroying Rohan and its people to the very last child must have looked far better on paper. I don't even think Grima thinks about Eowyn in this situation (Saruman might have told the Uruks to spare her), it's just that all of a sudden it strikes him what Saruman's plans might look like if put into reality.
All we have to argue with is his facial expression which we see for mere seconds so it's really few, but this is how I interpret it.

The second thing is, that between now and Grima killing Saruman in the movie we will only get to see him one more time, when Isengard is flooded. If the moviemakers didn't get at least a glimpse of character development into Grima at this time, his killing of Saruman would have been completely unrealistic.

Third, Grima just isn't an overjoyed Nazi in the book, as we see especially in "Many Partings". Though this, of course, is a bad argument for the movie.

[Essex]

Third, Grima just isn't an overjoyed Nazi in the book, as we see especially in "Many Partings". Though this, of course, is a bad argument for the movie.

I'm also basibg this point on the character after listening to all the commentaries by the actors and the director/scriptwriters, where some of them actually mention the nuremburg scene, if I can remember! I'll have another listen tonight and if you get time to take a listen too, if we want to go down this (very interesting) discussion path again.......

ill try and find the original thread we discussed this on too