Feedback and Suggestion Box

[Alchisiel]

Sounds good to me. I am in the process of reading LotR at the moment and I should be done by then. See you in September!!

[Aiwendil]

Provided there is still interest, I'm about ready to start the Silmarillion chapter by chapter discussion. I aim to have the Ainulindale intro up and the discussion started this weekend (i.e. September 9 - 10).

The Silmarillion discussion presents some interesting challenges not encountered in the previous discussions. As I see it there are two issues:

1. Each chapter of the Silmarillion covers significantly more plot than a chapter of LotR or The Hobbit.

2. The Silmarillion's unique history makes it less practicable to consider only the text as finally published.

I'm open to suggestions on how to deal with these issues. My thoughts for the moment are:

1A. We may want to allow a longer time (i.e. longer than one week) for each discussion before beginning the following chapter.

1B. Another possibility is to further sub-divide the chapters (particularly the later ones).

2. I wish to encourage, in addition to direct discussion of the chapter as found in the published Silmarillion, discussion of the history of each tale (i.e. of related material in UT and HoMe). But I certainly don't want to frighten off readers unfamiliar with the additional material. I plan to include a list of references in UT and HoMe for each chapter, and also to give a short introductory note on the textual evolution of each chapter. Does this sound like a good idea or might it be too intimidating?

I'd appreciate any thoughts or suggestions.

[Alchisiel]

I think if UT and HoME were included I think it would be more daunting of a task not only to the readers but to you also. But I can also see your point of including those books. I also think that it would be quite intimidating to readers not as knowledgeable as some of the more experienced readers here. I think the easiest solution that you gave would be to allow a longer time between chapters.

I am still very, very interested in the cbc of The Silm.

[Thinlómien]

I second longer time; two weeks (or even three) could be okay.

I wouldn't include the Ut or the HoME in the official CbC - nothing prevents individual members still referring to them.

[Lalwendë]

Aiwendil - I'm looking forwards to this, especially as you're knowledgeable on the Sil! I've been wanting to examine it in more depth for a while and improve my own understanding.

Now I would also second the call for a longer period than a week to consider chapters, and would also welcome chapter breakdowns - say half a chapter a fortnight in some cases, as it is such a dense text with so many refereences to consider - and work is also very intense for me too right now!

Not scared of using HoME as there's some fascianting stuff about how the ethos of the Sil changed with the years and its interesting to get to the original sources and find what remained!

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

While I don't have a complete set of HoME, I also would opt for references at least to the texts in UT and HoME, so that that we know where to find additional material and earlier versions etc. I also agree that a slower pace would be a good thing here, as the Silm sometimes strikes me as an outline for a very large series!

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Hilde Bracegirdle

While I don't have a complete set of HoME, I also would opt for references at least to the texts in UT and HoME, so that that we know where to find additional material and earlier versions etc. I also agree that a slower pace would be a good thing here, as the Silm sometimes strikes me as an outline for a very large series!

The Silmnopsis?

Oh never mind....

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

Provided there is still interest, I'm about ready to start the Silmarillion chapter by chapter discussion. I aim to have the Ainulindale intro up and the discussion started this weekend (i.e. September 9 - 10).

2. I wish to encourage, in addition to direct discussion of the chapter as found in the published Silmarillion, discussion of the history of each tale (i.e. of related material in UT and HoMe). But I certainly don't want to frighten off readers unfamiliar with the additional material. I plan to include a list of references in UT and HoMe for each chapter, and also to give a short introductory note on the textual evolution of each chapter. Does this sound like a good idea or might it be too intimidating?

I'd appreciate any thoughts or suggestions.

Good to hear you will be doing this, Aiwendil.

I'm looking forward to following this discussion, if not joining in. I think a longer period of time might be suitable, but a period longer than two weeks for each section under discussion might be at risk of losing people, as once they've posted their main ideas, they might lose the habit of keeping up, so to speak. Brisk moving threads seem to keep people interested--as long as they aren't too fast! Sub-division a good idea.

I don't think including reference from UT and HoMe would be intimidating. Boring maybe, but not intimidating.

[Mister Underhill]

I think Bb's right -- more frequent threads and smaller chunks might be the way to go, though I haven't looked at the text to see if there's an easy way of accomplishing that. The challenge here will be to get everyone on the same page, literally.

Also, from a "marketing" standpoint, here's another two cents: I think shooting for the weekend after the coming weekend at the earliest would be best. It would give time to post an Announcement and build some awareness before the project rolls. Also, a lot of people start school up again this week; might be better to let them settle in first (not to mention that it will give us time to iron out the technical details).

I like the idea of HoME and UT references in the intro posts.

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

Also, from a "marketing" standpoint, here's another two cents: I think shooting for the weekend after the coming weekend at the earliest would be best. It would give time to post an Announcement and build some awareness before the project rolls. Also, a lot of people start school up again this week; might be better to let them settle in first (not to mention that it will give us time to iron out the technical details).

Since I will be out of town this weekend, I would personally like this particular chapter discussion, which happens to be my all time favorite too, to start another time.

[Lalwendë]

And Oxonmoot is on 15th - 17th, too, so please don't start then.

[Aldarion Elf-Friend]

If suggestions from a mostly-lurker may be entertained:

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

1A. We may want to allow a longer time (i.e. longer than one week) for each discussion before beginning the following chapter.

I think that a longer time is an excellent idea, but why tie down to a fixed period for each discussion. As the eariler chapter discussions show, some chapters elicit much discussion, give and take, and point and rebuttal. Others generate 2 or 3 posts and then nothing for five days (although it would surprise me if Silm has that affect).

How about this: each chapter is open-ended, with the moderator announcing two or three days in advance that, since discussion seems to be drawing to a close, the new chapter will be posted on...

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

1B. Another possibility is to further sub-divide the chapters (particularly the later ones).

If you can find logical starting and stopping places, then by all means.

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

2. I wish to encourage, in addition to direct discussion of the chapter as found in the published Silmarillion, discussion of the history of each tale (i.e. of related material in UT and HoMe). But I certainly don't want to frighten off readers unfamiliar with the additional material. I plan to include a list of references in UT and HoMe for each chapter, and also to give a short introductory note on the textual evolution of each chapter. Does this sound like a good idea or might it be too intimidating?

I think that this sort of material in the introduction and inserted by the more knowledgeable and well-read members would be most welcomed, even by the casual reader (will there be any casual readers of these threads?) So far, the source material that has been referenced has been included in a way that is straighforward, non-confusing, and adds to the experience. Kudos to those, especially in the LotR discussions for that!

I have only read UT, so don't know what Silm material is included in the other volumes of HoME, but I know that the stuff from UT was either totally fascinating (the complete Fall of Gondolin, or the creation of the sun and moon), or failed completely to hold my interest (the evolution of the story of Earendil, for instance). I know that everyone's experience is different, and therefore encourage the inclusion of source material and "historical" refrences as part of the discussion.

Thanks for listening.

[Aiwendil]

Mister Underhill wrote:

I think shooting for the weekend after the coming weekend at the earliest would be best. It would give time to post an Announcement and build some awareness before the project rolls. Also, a lot of people start school up again this week; might be better to let them settle in first (not to mention that it will give us time to iron out the technical details).

Quite sensible. Let's make it the weekend of the 16th - 17th then.

I'm inclined to try a two week discussion period. Longer than this would certainly not be advisable. But I see no reason that the length must be set in stone at the outset. If two weeks proves too long, it can be reduced.

[Mister Underhill]

Sounds good. I'll throw an announcement up today. Aiwendil, I think I've set you up to be able to start threads in CbC -- check on that if you would. We'll also have to set the naming conventions for the threads.

[Aldarion Elf-Friend]

What about starting on the 15th, and catching the anniversary of the Silmarillion's publishing date?

[Aiwendil]

The first Silmarillion discussion will be opened shortly. I hope this is not a problem for those attending Oxonmoot; in any case, the next discussion is not set to start until two weeks from today, which should give everyone who's interested time to participate in the Ainulindale.

I will be including some comments on the textual history of each chapter, as well as some references to Unfinished Tales (UT) and The History of Middle-earth (HoMe) for those who are interested in reading more. Please note: these additional readings are not required for participation! I hope that the discussions will appeal to first time readers of the Silmarillion just as much as to venerable HoMe scholars.