Disturbing scenes in the movies

[The Saucepan Man]

Please remember to keep the discussion courteous and respectful.

You can criticise the films all you like, but please don't criticise other members.

[Lalwendë]

I have to say I didn't find very much in the films to be 'disturbing'. The treatment of the character of Faramir I thought was just wrong, and I didn't even register that Gimli might have been sitting on a slaughtered Orc, possibly as I'd just been watching a huge battle scene and my senses were filled with the noise and smell of war (or something like that ).

However, one scene I found quite scary in a stunning way and that was where the beam of light shoots up from Minas Morgul and the sound on the film cuts out for a split second - that was incredibly effective as a 'horror' moment for me.

Now there are in fact a few scenes that I do not like watching as they make me feel a bit uncomfortable - any scenes where animals seem to be hurt or slaughtered. I don't like watching the Oliphaunts stampede the Rohirrim horses, nor do I like it when the Fell beast swoops down and takes horses in its mouth and flings them aside. I find myself looking away at those moments as I find it unpleasant and unsettling.

But I wouldn't say there were disturbing scenes - as I always manage to comfort myself with the knowledge that this is all just smoke and mirrors, they are computer generated horses, not real ones. And yes, I also feel sad when the Oliphaunts get stuck full of arrows. Poor creatures.

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

But I wouldn't say there were disturbing scenes - as I always manage to comfort myself with the knowledge that this is all just smoke and mirrors, they are computer generated horses, not real ones. And yes, I also feel sad when the Oliphaunts get stuck full of arrows. Poor creatures.

As for poor Shelob ....

[Kath]

I have to agree with Lalwendë in that I didn't find any of the scenes "disturbing" as such. Some people were treated in a way I didn't think appropriate and some things were a little bizarre, but nothing worth petitioning PJ over. He made the films in a way that was pleasing to him, and that he thought would get a good reaction from audiences, something he certainly achieved.

Probably the only thing I would classify as truly disturbing is Denethor's table manners.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Essex

re "Dunedain that should be good behaving like orcs..." and Alatar's point on 'Good and Evil'

I really don't think Tolkien's world is that 'black and white' (to coin a phrase).

Why should all men descendant of Numenor (ie the Dunedain) be 'good'. If that was so then Isildur would have thrown the Ring into the Fire and we wouldn't have all this trouble in the first place.....!

Maybe I should have left the "who should be good"-part out. Of course, none of them is entirely good. What I meant is that pounding a poor, wretched creature like Gollum the way they did for whatever reason is a particularly orcish act. Dunedain simply should not act like that - Faramir, even movie-Faramir, the least.

PS Faramir's men were, let's be honest, practicing standard interrogation techniques with Gollum! We might not like it, but it is what goes on. They're being atttacked from all sides from the forces of 'Evil' as we call them, so sometimes we might understand (but not agree with) their tactics in the cold light of War......

Standard interrogation techniques? I agree that torture, and we're talking about torture here, can be applied in interrogation when lives are immediately at risk. But not only is this not the case here, but the interrogation hasn't even started when Gollum was beat up. And if it is standard, then why are Frodo and Sam not interrogated standardly?
In the given situation I neither understand nor agree.

[Essex]

ok so I'll remove the word standard from that sentence then.

but they are interrogation techniques that are used in the time of War. And they were no doubt 'softening him up' - not nice to see, but PJ is adding some realism into the scene. When reading a book we may not see what is happening in the background as we are focused on what is happening on the page, and can divert our precious time to it. But to translate this across to the medium of the Screen, in an ABRIDGED version, then we need to see what is happening in context to the scene.

Sorry, not making myself clear here - what I mean is that Gollum turns against Frodo at this point (in both movie and book to be honest) - in the book we can have narrative to explain why this is happening - in the film we have a roughening up of the character and interrogation by Faramir that jolts 'Gollum' back into the fray. This is a pivotal scene in the film - and Jackson shows his view of what helped turned Gollum back against Frodo (ie being tricked by Frodo into being caught and then roughed up by Faramir's men). PJ was able to show a reason for Gollum's turn in a few seconds. Tolkien could take as long as he wanted.......

[Macalaure]

I agree on the importance of this scene in the development of movie-Gollum.

But the way the scene was in the theatrical version was sufficient, I think. When I watched it for the first time in the cinema (without book knowledge back then) I found the reaction of Gollum comprehensible. He feels like he is tricked by the first being in centuries he thought he could trust. It made perfect sense to me.

And realism is over-rated.

[Beanamir of Gondor]

Originally Posted by Kath

I have to agree with Lalwendë in that I didn't find any of the scenes "disturbing" as such. Some people were treated in a way I didn't think appropriate and some things were a little bizarre, but nothing worth petitioning PJ over. He made the films in a way that was pleasing to him, and that he thought would get a good reaction from audiences, something he certainly achieved.

Probably the only thing I would classify as truly disturbing is Denethor's table manners.

I completely agree. There are a lot of movies out there that contain material much more horrifying, which abuse their characters a lot more than PJ's films do, and which treat their animals/sub-humans a lot worse. Probably more horrifying to me than the death of many CG horses, oliphaunts, orcs, Uruks, and wargs was the shameful waste of time spent on meaningless battles (involving all of those CG characters), falling staircases, romantic scenes, and overly dramatic Frodo-embarassing-himself sort of moments. That time could have been spent on Tolkien's visions of the BD and perhaps even Tom Bombadil.

We (and I freely include myself) are obsessed with things like the Mouth of Sauron, or the Gimli-sitting-on-the-orc scene, because we are (for the most part) fans of Tolkien's original storyline, and don't like to be unpleasantly surprised when things go differently, or when a character deviates from his/her former patterns. In the case of movie fans who have yet to read the books, we have our own seperate opinions about how the characters should behave, simply because we are drawn into the plot... and occasionally are disappointed by the characters' actions.

Honestly, the scenes I found most disturbing in the movies were the Ride of the Rohirrim at the Pelennor, and Faramir's asssault on Osigiliath (a.k.a. Faramir's Last Stand). Both moved me emotionally because of my attachment to the characters, and since many changes had already been made to the plot (Haldir's death, for one), I wasn't entirely sure if Eowyn, Merry, and Faramir would live to see the end of the movie. I could actually feel Merry's fear that he might not live to greet his friends again, Eowyn's fear that she may never see her brother or uncle, and Faramir's sorrow at perhaps never finding his father's love; PJ's ability to put the audience in the character's shoes makes those scenes unsettlingly full of thought.

Originally Posted by Beanamir of Gondor

I completely agree. There are a lot of movies out there that contain material much more horrifying, which abuse their characters a lot more than PJ's films do, and which treat their animals/sub-humans a lot worse. Probably more horrifying to me than the death of many CG horses, oliphaunts, orcs, Uruks, and wargs was the shameful waste of time spent on meaningless battles (involving all of those CG characters), falling staircases, romantic scenes, and overly dramatic Frodo-embarassing-himself sort of moments. That time could have been spent on Tolkien's visions of the BD and perhaps even Tom Bombadil.

We (and I freely include myself) are obsessed with things like the Mouth of Sauron, or the Gimli-sitting-on-the-orc scene, because we are (for the most part) fans of Tolkien's original storyline, and don't like to be unpleasantly surprised when things go differently, or when a character deviates from his/her former patterns. In the case of movie fans who have yet to read the books, we have our own seperate opinions about how the characters should behave, simply because we are drawn into the plot... and occasionally are disappointed by the characters' actions.

Honestly, the scenes I found most disturbing in the movies were the Ride of the Rohirrim at the Pelennor, and Faramir's asssault on Osigiliath (a.k.a. Faramir's Last Stand). Both moved me emotionally because of my attachment to the characters, and since many changes had already been made to the plot (Haldir's death, for one), I wasn't entirely sure if Eowyn, Merry, and Faramir would live to see the end of the movie. I could actually feel Merry's fear that he might not live to greet his friends again, Eowyn's fear that she may never see her brother or uncle, and Faramir's sorrow at perhaps never finding his father's love; PJ's ability to put the audience in the character's shoes makes those scenes unsettlingly full of thought.

What did you make of the Aragorn & Arwen scenes? Did you enjoy them?

[Beanamir of Gondor]

To tell the truth, the Aragorn-Arwen scenes positively bored me in TTT. For one, I rather enjoyed the patient, platonic, no-touchee relationship between those two characters in the book; for another, the characterization in those scenes felt a little flat to me, and didn't add much plotwise. I realize that they were most likely added in the hopes of keeping battle-bored viewers interested, but still...
I feel that PJ could have left the Aragorn-Arwen action out of TTT, added some stuff from RotK!Movie that was actually in TTT!Book (Flotsam & Jetsam, maybe even Shelob), and then had more room in RotK!Movie for The Scouring of the Shire and suchlike. And the movie probably wouldn't have suffered a bit.
I really have nothing to complain about as far as the A-A scenes in FotR and RotK go, however. They did bring Arwen down from the height of "Lady Arwen" to a more moderate stance of "Aragorn's girlfriend" or "Elrond's daughter", but that was fairly harmless, and, I suppose, made the relationship between grubby old Strider and lovely Evenstar a little more realistic for modern audiences.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Now there are in fact a few scenes that I do not like watching as they make me feel a bit uncomfortable - any scenes where animals seem to be hurt or slaughtered. I don't like watching the Oliphaunts stampede the Rohirrim horses, nor do I like it when the Fell beast swoops down and takes horses in its mouth and flings them aside. I find myself looking away at those moments as I find it unpleasant and unsettling.

I think I must feel like Lal does. Aragorn's horse snogging brought tears to my eyes.