oldest person in middle earth - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Gil-Galad · 11-04-2006, 12:20 AM

Glorfindel lived in the first age, died while fighting a Balrog during the refugees escape from the sacking of Gondolin, Glorfindel was then sent back to M-E after the Second Age where he lives in the house of Elrond.

out of the elves i would have to agree with saying that Cirdan would be the eldest named elf.

Boromir88 · 11-04-2006, 10:18 AM

Of the Elves it would certainly be Cirdan whose people were the first mariners in Middle-earth and Cirdan would be the last elf to leave. It's speculated that Cirdan was one of the original Elves that awoke at Cuivienen, though that's not know for certain.

Raynor · 11-05-2006, 05:08 AM

I don't think that he was a first born elf. He is said to be a kinsman of Thingol (who , having a brother, means he is not a firstborn either), he is lower in rank than he, and apparently he has no wife (all 72 first elves had wives).

lathspell · 11-10-2006, 07:44 AM

A few notices.

The oldest elf is indeed Cirdan the Shipwright. He was among those few Elves that lived in Darkness before they were brought to Valinor by Oromë. I don't know wether he was a first-born elf, but he was definitely among them when their great journey began.

Oldest person is quite another thing. Huge threads have been given to this matter. Personally I'm inclined to think Bombadil is indeed oldest. I have a few reasons:
1. Goldberry says so in LotR: 'Eldest, that's what he is!' This assumes that he was older than her (I always thought of Bombadil's finding Goldberry near the river was a kind of metaphor for her birthing, so that would be another reason). Since she said it, and I think it safe to presume that she knows her mother's age, it would be safe to assume that he is older.
Than there is the point were speculation comes in. We don't know anything about Goldberry's mother. For all we know she disappeared or died. Calculations are not possible without further information on her part.

2. Tom Bombadil must be older than Treebeard, him being the Eldest Ent. In the Silmarillion Manwë says to Yavanna: 'When the thoughts of Iluvatar come alive, so also will the thoughts of Yavanna!' This after the Great Song and the Valar coming into Arda. Bombadil claims to have been her ever since the Great Dark Lord came from Outside when the world was ever dark. Bombadil saw the Valar come, therefore he was oldest.

Hoping this topic will never burn out,
greetings,
lathspell

Boromir88 · 11-10-2006, 11:22 AM

lathspell, nice post I'd like to point out the differences between Treebeard being referred to as the Eldest, and Tom B. being referred to as such.

Quote:

Eldest was the courtesy title of Treebeard as the oldest surviving Ent. The Ents claimed to be the oldest 'speaking people' after the Elves {illegible} until taught the art of speech by the Elves...They were therefore placed after the dwarves in the Old List...since Dwarves had the power of speech from their awaking.~Lord of the Rings Companion, Letter dated 1968

While I think Bombadil being called the 'Eldest' means slightly different (as in he truly is the oldest person on Middle-earth), as he is also referred to as 'fatherless.'

11-04-2006, 12:20 AM	#1
Gil-Galad Psyche of Prince Immortal Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis Posts: 4,734	Glorfindel lived in the first age, died while fighting a Balrog during the refugees escape from the sacking of Gondolin, Glorfindel was then sent back to M-E after the Second Age where he lives in the house of Elrond. out of the elves i would have to agree with saying that Cirdan would be the eldest named elf. __________________ Love doesn't blow up and get killed.

11-04-2006, 10:18 AM	#2
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	Of the Elves it would certainly be Cirdan whose people were the first mariners in Middle-earth and Cirdan would be the last elf to leave. It's speculated that Cirdan was one of the original Elves that awoke at Cuivienen, though that's not know for certain. __________________ Fenris Penguin

11-10-2006, 07:44 AM	#4
lathspell Regenerating Ringkeeper Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 757	A few notices. The oldest elf is indeed Cirdan the Shipwright. He was among those few Elves that lived in Darkness before they were brought to Valinor by Oromë. I don't know wether he was a first-born elf, but he was definitely among them when their great journey began. Oldest person is quite another thing. Huge threads have been given to this matter. Personally I'm inclined to think Bombadil is indeed oldest. I have a few reasons: 1. Goldberry says so in LotR: 'Eldest, that's what he is!' This assumes that he was older than her (I always thought of Bombadil's finding Goldberry near the river was a kind of metaphor for her birthing, so that would be another reason). Since she said it, and I think it safe to presume that she knows her mother's age, it would be safe to assume that he is older. Than there is the point were speculation comes in. We don't know anything about Goldberry's mother. For all we know she disappeared or died. Calculations are not possible without further information on her part. 2. Tom Bombadil must be older than Treebeard, him being the Eldest Ent. In the Silmarillion Manwë says to Yavanna: 'When the thoughts of Iluvatar come alive, so also will the thoughts of Yavanna!' This after the Great Song and the Valar coming into Arda. Bombadil claims to have been her ever since the Great Dark Lord came from Outside when the world was ever dark. Bombadil saw the Valar come, therefore he was oldest. Hoping this topic will never burn out, greetings, lathspell __________________ 'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'

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11-05-2006, 05:08 AM	#3
Raynor Eagle of the Star Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sarmisegethuza Posts: 1,058	I don't think that he was a first born elf. He is said to be a kinsman of Thingol (who , having a brother, means he is not a firstborn either), he is lower in rank than he, and apparently he has no wife (all 72 first elves had wives).