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#1 |
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Guest
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Firstly, Saruman, I believe, had fallen into darkness (though not openly), far before Gandalf discovered that he had. FAR before it. The Shire, defended by the Rangers (and, I may add, a VERY select cadre of them), was otherwise defenceless. Now, when Gandalf mentioned that he had found the Ring in the possession of a Hobbit (Though Saruman had been spying before then), it will have largely increased Saruman's interest, not in the Shire, but in it's inhabitants. Ergo, it is no small wonder that he found them to be hardy folk. Subsequently, as had been mentioned in Hobbiton by Gandalf to Frodo, Saruman would have realised the prospect of forcing the Hobbits into slave labour. And, surprise surprise, that is what he did (more or less), after being ousted from power by Gandalf and the Fellowship (with the invaluable help of the Rohirrim). So there you go, a rather plausible reason for Saruman's interest in the Shire, cheap slave labour.
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Eagle of the Star
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
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#3 | |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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#4 | |
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Eagle of the Star
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
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If we are to believe the Tale of years:
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#6 | |||
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Laconic Loreman
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I don't think it's ever really conclusive when Saruman had started heading down the wrong path, but I think we can get a generalized idea of the time frame.
We know that right from the start Saruman (Curumo) was jealous of Gandalf (Olorin): Quote:
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So, roughly during that 100 year period when he first is given Orthanc, to the meeting with the White Council I think we can say is when Saruman officially became corrupted. However, I think the seeds of corruption were sewn much earlier starting with Saruman's jealousy of Gandalf.
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Fenris Penguin
Last edited by Boromir88; 11-15-2006 at 11:40 PM. |
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#7 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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Of course, you don't become evil overnight when falling from the post like Saruman had. I think we can see - as you have very nicely displayed here, Boromir - the "chart" of his fall, generally, in the points of a person (or spirit) a little bit proud of himself (in Valinor) => jealous on Gandalf (also in Valinor, that famous "not-as-the-third" thing; but enhanced after the arrival by knowing about the Ring Gandalf recieved) => growing in being proud (when seeing those stupid Middleeartheans, and also after recieving the Keys to Orthanc) => becoming lusty for power (after settling down at Isengard) => growing more selfish and more centered and closed at himself (like Treebeard said, also coming from how he lived at one place - he changed caring about outside world and the life in the world around him for caring only for his own agenda, literally he changed "change for cold comfort"
) => falling to the lure of power to that point that he started to lust for the One Ring itself (around 2851) => definitely changing his heart and secretly plotting AGAINST his former allies (! to this moment Saruman might be selfish or whatever, he might even been thinking wrong about Gandalf&co, but he didn't DO anything against them - now we have here lying to the Council, fortifying Isengard - 2953, spying Gandalf and putting down spies in the Shire) => hooking up with Sauron (c. 3000 - after using the Palantír of Orthanc). The rest we all know, I suppose.But back to the original question - in the light of this what we stated above, when do you think, that Saruman actually started to SMOKE?
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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