Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXVI - Úcenite Valto - Planning and Discussion Thread

[Roa_Aoife]

You know, after LMP's death, it occured to me that the one who killed him in the narration was the Dark Lady, and not a werewolf. I would have remarked on this, but I was killed. >P

I let me just say that it's horribly irritating to work up both rebuttal and analysis for the following Day, only to find myself dead.

Anyways, I had fun, despite my general uselessness. Maybe I can get more involved in the next game.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by the phantom

That village was so fun that I think there is a good chance that it would have been fun even without my participation.

Surely not!

Originally Posted by the phantom

Wrong. False. Winning was a feat, for it proves that you were successful at appearing innocent to your fellow villagers. More successful than me even judging by Mith's vote the final day.

True, but it was still through little effort on my part. I really do believe that, unless Gifted and while a numerical advantage remains, an innocent should not be too concerned about being lynched - “in the cause”, as it were. Since there were no Gifteds in this game, I saw little reason to fight to survive until near to the end, and so did not bother spending much time defending myself. Perhaps I just naturally come across as the innocent-type.

You, on the other hand, my dear phantom, naturally come across as the guilty type. Not through anything in particular that you do or say. It’s just that anyone who has seen you play as a Wolf knows precisely what you are capable of and just how dangerous you can be, particularly when you give the impression that butter wouldn’t melt in your mouth. I really wanted to trust you in this game, but spent much of it fighting a natural instinct to suspect you.

Then again, I have been lynched three times to your two.

Originally Posted by the phantom

But, could you at least admit that you were slightly outraged by my declaration that my earlier vote wasn't legitimate?

Actually, I did notice at the time that your votes were not correctly stated, but took the view that they would be considered valid. It would have been interesting to have seen what would have happened had anything turned on it. Rest assured that I would have argued long and hard against your attempt to recast your vote, had it been necessary. And I would probably have won.

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Actually Phantom, I probably would have voted for Sauce if you hadn't presented me with a fait accompli.

Yes, I was aware of that. I should really thank the phantom for helping me to achieve the dubious honour of last villager standing. Had it not been for that fait accompli, and assuming that chance would have favoured him as it did me, he would probably have achieved that “honour” himself.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Is there anyone at all who believed in my innocence based on that reasoning?

I was inclined to take it at face value until the final Day, when I could no longer ignore the distinct possibility that you might be a Wolf after all.

[Mithalwen]

Though, thinking about it ... as I would have done had it been of any consequence, Phantom's confident assertion of Morm's innocence, Nogrod's identity as kill etc might have tipped the balance..especially since the last time I was in the last 3 situation it was Anguirel's confident assertions that made me choose him...

I might have flipped a coin in the end.. or put myself out of my misery with a self vote

It would have been a day of monumental indecisiveness.. so really Phantom, you did me a favour...

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Perhaps I just naturally come across as the innocent-type.

Certainly not. I never overlook you. I made that mistake once and never will again.

As a matter of fact, it occurs to me that some people seemed to believe that I had bought into that Sauce and the phantom were actually innocent after the phantom's response to my little theory. Whoever did that (I can't remember anymore) was incorrect. There was a big fat "IF ... you are right, phantom..." in there. I was not convinced, but ready to take their innocence into consideration as a possibility; nothing more. Of course, the Dark Lady removed my need to worry about it.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Mith

Boromir did ..and look what happened to the poor blighter ...

Yes, that's true. I can't tell you how disappointed I was to lose him on Day 1. He was supposed to be my WW-catching ally through the game.

Originally Posted by SPM

I really do believe that, unless Gifted and while a numerical advantage remains, an innocent should not be too concerned about being lynched - “in the cause”, as it were. Since there were no Gifteds in this game, I saw little reason to fight to survive until near to the end

Not I.

I hadn't WWed in quite a while and I won't be WWing for quite a while. I came off of my WW vacation for this game, because it was Fea and she had mentioned it months ago. So, I wanted to stick around for as long as possible so that I would get my money's worth, and I wanted to provide a lot of volume and excitement to make sure Fea got her money's worth.

Originally Posted by SPM

You, on the other hand, my dear phantom, naturally come across as the guilty type.

Yes, that is certainly true, but at the same time this is only my second lynching. That seems odd to me- that I am always eyed nervously and yet not lynched as much as some.

Here are the games, what I started as, and my votes (I think these are right, anyway).

WW 1 (ordo)- No votes in 3 days
WW 2 (WW)- 3 votes (all Day 1) in 4 days
WW 3 (ordo)- 12 votes in 3 days (my first lynch, revenge for WW 2 most likely)
WW 4 (Shirriff)- 2 votes (all Day 2) in 2 days, due to my "lynch a volunteer" plan
WW 9 (Seer)- 1 vote (from a WW) in 2 days
WW 10 (WW)- No votes in 5 days
WW 21 (ordo)- No votes in 2 days
WWJ 9 (ordo)- 1 vote (from the Cobbler) in 4 days
WW 26 (ordo)- 4 votes in 6 days (my second lynch)

So, I have 23 votes in 32 days. Not counting WW 3, I have 11 votes in 29 days. Not counting votes from evil-doers, 9 votes in 29 days.

I have had 22 voteless days. My 23 votes were gathered in 10 days. I have had 7 multi-vote days, resulting in 2 lynches.

So, it seems that I have had five days where I've taken a lot of heat and accumulated votes but wriggled out of being lynched. Also, in 5 games out of 9 I received no votes from innocents. Hmm... what sort of patterns exist? Do I attract more or less votes than most others?

Ah, I just noticed that the votes for me on Day 1 ruined a streak I had going- 13 days without a vote from an innocent or gifted.

Btw, I did consider trying to convince SPM and Mith to edit their posts and thus hand the game to me. What would you have thought had I proposed that, Mith and SPM? Would it have made me look more or less guilty?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Btw, I did consider trying to convince SPM and Mith to edit their posts and thus hand the game to me. What would you have thought had I proposed that, Mith and SPM? Would it have made me look more or less guilty?

Go ahead! That looks as sane as everything that might have been done in this game.

But I would stick to Spm's and lmp's thoughts on rational arguments. With all of them you phantom should have been lynched and would I have been given one Day more, I would have tried my best to show your "cunning-evilness"... for no avail, as I now have learned (and which innocence I kind of trusted from the beginning, but was growing a bit wary of it all the time - I would surely had gone through every comma you made on the next Day had I been alive!).

So, as lmp said, it's easy to find well grounded suspicions on some games and on others one is totally at lost with them. I wholly agree with this. But Spm has a point too: you can make anyone look bad if you want to... So in the end it seems to depend on who you decide to look on - or who arises your attention? So again, loudmouths having to bear the grunt of analysing (which leads the analysed to look guilty if the analyser knows her/his job) while the quiet ones get by without notice?

Again voicing this one principle: open talking gets me wishing one to live and hiding in the shadows I only see working for the dark side...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Btw, I did consider trying to convince SPM and Mith to edit their posts and thus hand the game to me. What would you have thought had I proposed that, Mith and SPM? Would it have made me look more or less guilty?

Er - what do you think?

[the phantom]

Er - what do you think?

I don't think it's as simple as that. Or is it? I don't know.

Asking you to hand the game to me by means of the edit rule- that would've accomplished the same thing as getting one of you to vote for the other had I been a WW, right? So really, if it was at all possible that you would've voted for the other person, you might as well have just handed the game to me, right?

And surely the thought would've crossed your mind "Would a WW tp really want to win like this?"

And if your answer would've been "no", then maybe you would've gone along with it? But if the answer was "heck yeah, he'd love it", then you would've voted for me on the spot.

At least, that was the thought process that I was expecting to create had I gone through with it.