For girls and ladies only!

[Rikae]

Well, they had marriage; although I suppose this could be accomplished by signing a contract, or waking up one morning and telling everyone you're married, I doubt the elves (or hobbits) would have passed up the opportunity for a celebration.

Religion? I think someone who's more familiar with the other writings can speak about this better than I, but I always had the impression the elves did have a religion of sorts; that some of their songs were more hymns or prayers; although I don't imagine they had church buildings (who needs a church when you have Lothlorien?); it seems entirely possible they had holidays, rituals etc.

Of course, a traditional white wedding gown is quite an anachronism (but fun to imagine), since it isn't even universal in our world; but it seems possible that, assuming there was some sort of celebration, there would also be some sort of special garb to go with it...

[Mithalwen]

Ok I will overcome my wedding phobia to pass on some factual information (NB I have no objection to marriage per se.... in fact I think it a very good idea for other people but most weddings these days seem to have got completely out of control and whenever I go to one I feel I am in a remake of "4 weddings and a funeral").

Laws and Customs of the Eldar in Morgoth's Ring gives information on wedding customs among the Noldor. "

The Eldar wedded once only in life, and for love or at the least by free will upon either part. Even when in after days, as histories reveal, many of the Eldar in Middle-earth became corrupted, and their hearts darkened by the shadow that lies upon Arda, seldom is any tale told of deeds of lust among them.

Marriage, save for rare ill chances or strange fates, was the natural course of life for all the Eldar. It took place in this way. Those who would afterwards become wedded might choose one another early in youth, even as children (and indeed this happened often in days of peace); but unless they desired soon to be married and were of fitting age, the betrothal awaited the judgement of the parents of either party.

In due time the betrothal was announced at a meeting of the two houses concerned, and the betrothed gave silver rings one to another. According to the laws of the Eldar this betrothal was bound then to stand for one year at least, and it often stood for longer. During this time it could be revoked by a public return of the rings, the rings then being molten and not again used for a betrothal. Such was the law; but the right of revoking was seldom used, for the Eldar do not err lightly in such a choice. They are not easily deceived by their own kind; and their spirits being masters of their bodies, they are seldom swayed by the desires of the body only, but are by nature continent and steadfast.

Nonetheless among the Eldar, even in Aman, the desire for marriage was not always fulfilled. Love was not always returned; and more than one might desire one another for spouse. Concerning this, the only cause by which sorrow entered the bliss of Aman, the Valar were in doubt. Some held that it came from the marring of Arda, and form the Shadow under which the Eldar awaoke; for thence only (they said) comes grief or disorder. Some held that it came of love itself, and of the freedom of each fea, and was a mystery of the nature of the Children of Eru.

After the betrothel it was the part of the betrothed to appoint the time of their wedding, when at least one year had passed. Then at a feast, again shared by the two houses, the marriage was celebrated. At the end of the feast the betrothed stood forth, and the mother of the bride and the father of the bridegroom joined the hands of the pair and blessed them. For this blessing there was a solemn form, but no mortal has heard it; though the Eldar say that Varda was named in witness by the mother and Manwe by the father; and moreover that the name of Eru was spoken (as was seldom done at any other time). The betrothed then received back from the other their silver rings (and treasured them); but they gave in exchange slender rings of gold, which were worn upon the index of the right hand.

Among the Noldor also it was a custon that the bride's mother should give to the bridegroom a jewel upon a chain or collar; and the bridegroom's father should give a like gift to the bride. These gifts were sometimes given before the feast. (Thus the gift of Galadriel to Aragorn, since she was in place of Arwen's mother, was in part a bridal gift and earnest of the wedding that was later accomplished.)

But these ceremonies were not rites necessary to marriage; they were only a gracious mode by which the love of the parents was manifested, and the union was recognized which would join not only the betrothed but their two houses together. It was the act of bodily union that achieved marriage, and after which the indissoluble bond was complete. In happy days and times of peace it was held ungracious and contemptuous of kin to forgo the ceremonies, but it was at all times lawful for any of the Eldar, both bein unwed, to marry thus of free consent on to another without ceremony or witness (save blessings exhanged and the naming of the Name); and the union so joined was alike indissoluble. In days of old, in times of trouble, in flight and exile and wandering, such marriages were often made."As for hobbits, when Tolkien was trying to start the Hobbit sequel and get round the problem of having said that Bilbo didn't have more adventures he did consider marrying off Bilbo and worked on the idea of Hobbit marriages being terribly secret and only announced when completed.

Tolkien doesn't mention special clothing but this might simply becasue as a heterosexual male it was not an area of interest.... White wedding dresses are a very recent and for most people terribly unflattering tradition. In some countries and cultures white is the colour of mourning and in other red the appropriate colour for brides to wear which would be shocking! (colour symbolism)

White dresses became fashionable because Queen Victoria wore a white dress for her wedding. Previously brides wore any colour apart form red or black. Blue not white was the colour associated with purity. And this symbolism is somewhat superfluous in the Elvish context....

Also in less extravagant times it would only have been the extremely wealthy who could afford the luxury of a dress that would only be worn once (which really is quite decadent if you think about it), so poorer brides would simply wear their best dress. This custom was revived through necessity during WW2 when rationing meant that white wedding dresses were not really and option unless the bride had one passed on to her or was very resourceful with parachute silk. Most brides had to opt for a coloured day dress that could be worn again.

Elves made everything to be beautiful and were so intune with nature that I can't help thinking that they wouldn't be so wasteful as to have a dress to be worn once. My guess is they might have a new dress but not wear it just once...

[Lalwendë]

Just to add to what Mithalwen has posted, Green is a colour rarely worn (in RL), as it is seen as unlucky. There is a superstition that if the Bride wears green then the faeries will take her away. From a similar origin comes veil wearing, as it was seen to be important to 'protect' a bride lest the faeries see her face and steal her; bridesmaids were also said to be used as further protection, in an effort to 'confuse' tricksy sprites by being confronted with a whole bevy of lasses.

I'm not going to say much about those Elves who 'married' by 'doing the deed', but it does conjour up some strange mood dampening images if they made sure to say their 'blessings' before um...getting down to it.

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Just to add to what Mithalwen has posted, Green is a colour rarely worn (in RL), as it is seen as unlucky. There is a superstition that if the Bride wears green then the faeries will take her away. From a similar origin comes veil wearing, as it was seen to be important to 'protect' a bride lest the faeries see her face and steal her; bridesmaids were also said to be used as further protection, in an effort to 'confuse' tricksy sprites by being confronted with a whole bevy of lasses.

Oh, that's interesting. I'd better tell my sister that Green's unlucky. She wants it, I think, in her wedding dress.

I'm not going to say much about those Elves who 'married' by 'doing the deed', but it does conjour up some strange mood dampening images if they made sure to say their 'blessings' before um...getting down to it.

I don't understand. What do you mean, 'it does conjur up some strange mood dampening images if they made sure to say their 'blessings' before'? The fact they have to go through the ceremony is mood dampening?

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Folwren

I don't understand. What do you mean, 'it does conjur up some strange mood dampening images if they made sure to say their 'blessings' before'? The fact they have to go through the ceremony is mood dampening?

No, not the fact of a ceremony, it seems that Tolkien is saying they did not have to have a ceremony at all, that the very act of sleeping with someone formed a marriage, so long as they mentioned the names of Varda, Manwe and Eru as they got on with it. I'm of course speaking from a Western, modern, sex-outside-marriage-is-OK point of view, not as an Elf, and would find such a thing not very appealing. However, this is one of those instances where we can find Tolkien's Catholicism, as to sleep with someone is (was?) very much taken to be a declaration of consummation of a relationship, and if I am not mistaken, at one time non-consummation of a relationship was acceptable reason for a fully endorsed divorce? I think Henry VIII divorced Anne of Cleves quickly for this very reason.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

No, not the fact of a ceremony, it seems that Tolkien is saying they did not have to have a ceremony at all, that the very act of sleeping with someone formed a marriage, so long as they mentioned the names of Varda, Manwe and Eru as they got on with it. ...... and if I am not mistaken, at one time non-consummation of a relationship was acceptable reason for a fully endorsed divorce? I think Henry VIII divorced Anne of Cleves quickly for this very reason.

Oh Lal I think the vows were at the feast before not during..... at least I hope so.....!!!!! That would be a bit weird but reminds me of a very rude joke .

Non-consummation is still grounds for annulment ... and ...well I remember quite an interesting case a few years ago regarding the validity of a Catholic marriage .. but if you want to know about that PM ....

[Lalwendë]

I suspect the choice of white came about in Victorian times for dresses more as a symbol of wealth and status - a family announcing that they had enough money to splash out on a thoroughly impractical item of clothing that could not be used again, and possibly as a 'sign' of how delicate and precious their dear daughter was (i.e. not the type who'd get it covered in dirt in the kitchen, nor the type to go and get tell-tale grass stains on her frock ).

There is a 'public declaration' before marriage in the UK - banns must be published and read out on Sundays for three weeks in advance of a church marriage, and for a civil marriage the names of the couple must be published on the notice board in the registry office for 21 days in advance of the date. Prevents 'Britney style' weddings...

It was the act of bodily union that achieved marriage, and after which the indissoluble bond was complete. In happy days and times of peace it was held ungracious and contemptuous of kin to forgo the ceremonies, but it was at all times lawful for any of the Eldar, both bein unwed, to marry thus of free consent on to another without ceremony or witness (save blessings exhanged and the naming of the Name); and the union so joined was alike indissoluble

Now, tell me I have a warped mind if needs must , but I know what that looks like. It looks to me like sleeping together was the actual act that caused two Elves to 'be married' (as opposed to taking rings or signing a book) and they could forgo the ceremony if necessary. Just so long as they said their blessings. Eol and Aredhel must have married in this way, as I don't remember any other Elves being around in his woods.

Saves money anyway...

[Folwren]

Thanks, Mith, for the long excerpt from the book. Wow. I'll warrant that took time typing up!

Bethberry, I've often considered what a marriage would include in ME, or any other fantasy world for that matter. Listening to wedding vows just yesterday, I thought, "Most of what takes place here has to do with God, but in ME, at least with the hobbits, there is no God to place first in life, before your spouse..."

But even without religion and without God, perhaps there are vows never to leave one another? Maybe to remain faithful, to honor, love, and obey until death parts them, or something. There are parts of the wedding and the vows that don't have to do with religion or God that are almost as important.

And as for wedding dresses only being worn once. . . .well, it seems to me that wedding dresses don't have to be made to be only worn once. It's a huge waste of a thousand dollars much of the time. My wedding dress isn't going to be very expensive (as wedding dresses go) and I am deffinitely going to wear it often, so long as I can fit into it. I think that elves could at least wear their dress again. Hobbits probably could, too. Just because they have a special dress for their wedding doesn't mean they can't wear it again.

I think white has been a traditional color for weddings for a long time. The Bible often mentions the Bride wearing white. In that book, white is the color of purity.
But even so! They could definitely wear other colors.

-- Folwren

[Mithalwen]

No I cut and pasted someone elses typing and corrected the typos I noticed....

Lal is right in saying green is peceived as unlucky for a wedding dress. Folwren - I would be interested to have refs for the biblical brides - it is not something I ever noticed - and it seems strange since in the Middle East where it originated it is the colour of death I wonder if it is a cultural rather than literal translation.

White is the colour of innocence but also of sterility. The virgin Mary is usually given blue garments in art because of its symbolism. However I think it is a bit of a side alley to apply modern Christian custom too much to the Lord of the Rings since that was not it's culture , more profitable perhaps to look at what information the book gives us. There isn't a lot basically but what there is seems closer to earlier marriage customs for people of relatively high status - in many case of course there were originally no rites and marriage was established by living as husband and wife (I did some research into for background for a Rohan rpg).

However in more formal situations ther were three parts to marriage - the public exchange of vows (troth plighting - more formal and binding than a modern engagement), the marriage contract arranged between the man and the bride's father, and the handing over of the bride to her husband. Now Aragorn and Arwen plighted their troth on Cerin Amroth (privately?) but it became public knowledge and Elrond's proviso re Aragorn becoming king could be seen as a contract laying out of the conditions for marriage. When these are met the bride is taken to the groom and her hand laid in his. With Faramir and Eowyn, their private agreement is made public by her closest male relative in lieu of her father, there is a public troth plighting and later she will go to Gondor ( implied in her pledge to return after Theoden is buried).

With modern weddings the troth plighting (cf the "Book of Common Prayer" marriage service) the contract and the handing over of the bride from father to husband (symbolically at least) happen on the same day if the religious service fulfils the legal requirements. In the UK church weddings usually do though other religions may need a separate civil ceremony and in France only civil ceremonies are legal and often take place on a different day to any religious service.