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#1 |
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Odinic Wanderer
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This subject has been well debated on the downs. . .Many is of the belief that there must have been other ways and that Gandalf must have known at least one, but I don't think anything was ever concluded.
I personally think that there would have been other ways, but I doubt that they would have been alternatives. One could have spend ages searching for passes over the mountains and they would probably also have been guarded, but probably only by orcs. |
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#2 | |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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So: the passages probably have been there, but they surely could not serve good for Frodo's purposes.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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#3 | |
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Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 22
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Alternative ways - no.
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#4 |
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Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
Posts: 2,205
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You have misunderstood me Legate.
I am also asking if in general there wouldn't have been another way. Gandalf might have known as he was not too happy to hear Cirith Ungol when he met Faramir. If we are to talk only about Frodo and Sam, I would think there was an even more important reason then their need for speed - Gollum. They now trusted him as far as leading them on the way was concerned, and they believed that Cirith Ungol was besides the Black Gate the only other way to enter Mordor. And as Faramir and nobody else could prove Gollum wrong, they had no other way then to follow him. But if Gandalf had remained with them, they might have taken another way I suspect.
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown |
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#5 | |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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Yes, I understand, I apologize, but you first spoke about the hobbits and Gollum, so I took it that you are speaking about their situation.
Anyway, you have my meaning of other ways through Ephel Dúath or Ered Lithui - since Cirith Ungol and Cirith Gorgor were the ones most used, and known (and as we can see, in case of Cirith Ungol, not so well known!), I'd suppose that there was not much else to come up with. Personally I wonder if Gandalf had even known what way they should go once they cross Anduin. The only Gandalf's words of this we have near the West gate of Moria: Quote:
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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#6 |
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Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
Posts: 2,205
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there could also be possible that he did think of Cirith Ungol himself, but only if he was there to help the Hobbits, and not if they would have been left alone with Gollum to lead them...still, considering their way on the Morgai Road there doesn't seem to be any other Orc keep in the mountains between Cirith Ungol and Durthang. There might have been small valleys made by small rivers in the mountains, as we see in the book when Sam and Frodo find a small spring after entering Mordor...so the theoretically it might have been possible.
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown |
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#7 | ||
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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Back to reality, the possibility of taking some secret pass through the mountains seems logical, but I still can't help to doubt that Gandalf had known Mordor so well that he could come up with such a way, and as I said before, he couldn't have known if Sauron did not close that road since reocuppying Mordor (because if Gandalf even was at the borders of Mordor, I hardly believe that he did this when the Dark Lord was back there again). I remember Gandalf saying that "he visited only the older and lesser hold of the Enemy", Dol Guldur - and Aragorn seemed rather unnerved just from wandering the valley of Morgul and near the Black Gate, I doubt Gandalf ever did much more. Maybe that idea of Orc disguise is not as bad - after all, it is a typical "heroic" way to get into the land of enemy (Beren, Finrod, Lúthien) and Frodo himself uses it in the end. I can imagine Gandalf metamorphing into a werewolf, Aragorn and Boromir masking as Uruk or Easterling warriors, Gimli as a strong Orc warrior, the hobbits becoming simple snagas (Phrodosh, Sham, Moriadog and Püpphan), and Legolas taking on a form of shadow-covered creature of dark. Then they go right through the Black Gate and straight to Mount Doom, where the last events take place. This is the best idea I can come up with at the moment.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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