This should be a rhetorical question... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Mithalwen · 01-06-2007, 06:36 AM

To save me repeating myself....I will link this .

Also remember that to an extent ideas of health and beauty are culturally influenced. It is ony recently since food has become abundant in the west, due in part to modern agricultural methods, that to be thin has been regarded as desirable.... before it was a mark of poverty (and a suntan marked you as a peasant).....

And there is plenty of evidence for elves enjoying a party ... I am sure even Sauce wouldn't mind propping up a bar with dear old Galion and suspect Esty may well be right about him

.....

As for the Might's quote ... it says desires of the body only..... not that they don't have desires of the flesh.... it is quite clear in the rest of that essay that they enjoy the desire that it mainly refers to ... just that the enjoy it with one other only at a ceertain point in their lives........

.... and so with drinking/ eating ..... just because they don't go in for Rabelaisian levels of indulgence it doesn't make them ascetics.

**The Saucepan Man** · 01-06-2007, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

And there is plenty of evidence for elves enjoying a party ... I am sure even Sauce wouldn't mind propping up a bar with dear old Galion and suspect Esty may well be right about him .....

Ah, Galion. Yes indeed. He's my kind of Elf.

Lalaith · 01-06-2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

I think that due to the special link between their bodies and their souls they were not so easily ifluenced by such pleasures such as food, drink, or..,you know what I mean

I think this is true up to a point. Remember Legolas not needing to sleep unless he wanted to, and elves choosing not to have children if the parents were going to spend time apart during the offspring's formative years. I imagine elves just had more control over their bodies than we do - they enjoyed good food, good wine and all those other pleasures. They were just able to enjoy them without *needing* them, or them having the same effects on them as they do on us humbler folk.

Come to think of it, I know some people who are pretty elf-like in this way - they stuff their faces with good food and never get fat, drink fine wine all night and wake up the next morning bright-eyed...jolly annoying they are too. I begin to understand Saucie's anti-elf viewpoint....

Holbytlass · 01-06-2007, 08:22 PM

It almost seems that the two races' physique ought to be switched between hobbits and elves at least by their mobility. Meaning that hobbits seemed to do alot more physical work namely farming, digging out their holes and elves seem to be more sedentary with book/lore learning and even creating their homes with magic. Perhaps the elves actually did get out the ol' hammer and nails to build those flets and the hoes to raise the wheat(i'm assuming) for the lembas but it doesn't seem likely.

Then again there's fat and then there's fat. Hobbits may be rolypoly but overall I think them to be only 20-30 pounds over what todays standard says they ought to be, not too many of them being actually obese.

It's still perception, even in Tolkien's time. Skinny doesn't always mean healthy but healthy people who do eat right and are in tiptop physical condition are more toned and thinner. So it still makes sense for the elves to look thinner.

Amras Oronar · 01-07-2007, 05:36 AM

Aye, I'm agreeing with that, Hobbits aint so fat.. more a lil chubby if you know what I mean

wel...like....*sigh* I can't find the right words in English for this

I do really know what I am meaning, but I can't seem to find the good discription for it in English

Thinlómien · 01-07-2007, 05:58 AM

I think there were fat Elves. It is not just mentioned. And that's just normal. Imagine Tolkien describing for example the House of Elrond as : "there were lots of Elves. Some of them were fat."

You don't need to write about minor things like that.

Every elf not described as slender can as well be fat. We can't know. As well as every elf not described as right-handed might be left-handed as well as right-handed. It's simple.

Amras Oronar · 01-07-2007, 12:40 PM

Hail Thinlómien, I mean, of how many Humans is there actually described that they are fat? perhaps there are fewer elves but...

01-06-2007, 06:36 AM	#1
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	To save me repeating myself....I will link this . Also remember that to an extent ideas of health and beauty are culturally influenced. It is ony recently since food has become abundant in the west, due in part to modern agricultural methods, that to be thin has been regarded as desirable.... before it was a mark of poverty (and a suntan marked you as a peasant)..... And there is plenty of evidence for elves enjoying a party ... I am sure even Sauce wouldn't mind propping up a bar with dear old Galion and suspect Esty may well be right about him ..... As for the Might's quote ... it says desires of the body only..... not that they don't have desires of the flesh.... it is quite clear in the rest of that essay that they enjoy the desire that it mainly refers to ... just that the enjoy it with one other only at a ceertain point in their lives........ .... and so with drinking/ eating ..... just because they don't go in for Rabelaisian levels of indulgence it doesn't make them ascetics. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

01-06-2007, 08:22 PM	#4
Holbytlass Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Party Tree Posts: 1,042	It almost seems that the two races' physique ought to be switched between hobbits and elves at least by their mobility. Meaning that hobbits seemed to do alot more physical work namely farming, digging out their holes and elves seem to be more sedentary with book/lore learning and even creating their homes with magic. Perhaps the elves actually did get out the ol' hammer and nails to build those flets and the hoes to raise the wheat(i'm assuming) for the lembas but it doesn't seem likely. Then again there's fat and then there's fat. Hobbits may be rolypoly but overall I think them to be only 20-30 pounds over what todays standard says they ought to be, not too many of them being actually obese. It's still perception, even in Tolkien's time. Skinny doesn't always mean healthy but healthy people who do eat right and are in tiptop physical condition are more toned and thinner. So it still makes sense for the elves to look thinner. __________________ Holby is an actual flesh-and-blood person, right? Not, say a sock-puppet of Nilp’s, by any chance? ~Nerwen, WWCIII

01-07-2007, 05:58 AM	#6
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	I think there were fat Elves. It is not just mentioned. And that's just normal. Imagine Tolkien describing for example the House of Elrond as : "there were lots of Elves. Some of them were fat." You don't need to write about minor things like that. Every elf not described as slender can as well be fat. We can't know. As well as every elf not described as right-handed might be left-handed as well as right-handed. It's simple. __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

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01-07-2007, 05:36 AM	#5
Amras Oronar Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Zoetermeer Posts: 29	Aye, I'm agreeing with that, Hobbits aint so fat.. more a lil chubby if you know what I mean wel...like....sigh I can't find the right words in English for this I do really know what I am meaning, but I can't seem to find the good discription for it in English

01-07-2007, 12:40 PM	#7
Amras Oronar Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Zoetermeer Posts: 29	Hail Thinlómien, I mean, of how many Humans is there actually described that they are fat? perhaps there are fewer elves but...