The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-20-2007, 09:20 AM   #1
Lalwendë
A Mere Boggart
 
Lalwendë's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
Lalwendë is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Lalwendë is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hewhoarisesinmight
then these men seem to have been written out of history for not coming to Gondor's aid during the war of the ring

maybe Barliman was invited but he forgot about the invitation
Well, they do say that the victors write all the history books.

__________________
Gordon's alive!
Lalwendë is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2007, 01:24 PM   #2
Elmo
Pittodrie Poltergeist
 
Elmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again
Posts: 633
Elmo has just left Hobbiton.
it would have been a good story the Snowmen coming to Gondor's aid...
and I'd always assumed that the squinty eyed southerner was a Dunlander which are many leagues away from the Shire and I couldn't imagine them coming to Gondor's rescue.
__________________
As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair,
The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.
Elmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2007, 04:42 PM   #3
Ghazi
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 57
Ghazi has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hewhoarisesinmight
I'd always assumed that the squinty eyed southerner was a Dunlander
They might have been in part. I seem to recall Merry or Pippin saying they had seen many men of the same type at Isengard around the time the Ents attacked it. So they were probably some breed of goblin mixed with men.
Ghazi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2007, 01:08 AM   #4
yavanna II
Registered User
 
yavanna II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: in my own little world
Posts: 142
yavanna II has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hewhoarisesinmight
it would have been a good story the Snowmen coming to Gondor's aid...
and I'd always assumed that the squinty eyed southerner was a Dunlander which are many leagues away from the Shire and I couldn't imagine them coming to Gondor's rescue.

I always thought Tolkien uses the fair-imaged people aiding the other fair people, and I couldn't imagine some "squinty-eyed southerner" riding to Gondor's aid, or any "good kingdom" in any case. Remember in the Sil, the Easterners were not that fair, and it was them (with the exception of Ulfang & Co) who betrayed the Noldor. And hey. Were there other "fair men" apart from the Rohirrim and the Dunedain?
yavanna II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2007, 01:44 AM   #5
Legate of Amon Lanc
A Voice That Gainsayeth
 
Legate of Amon Lanc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.
There were the Northerners from Rhovanion, possibly, but they were long ago destroyed or disperded due to Easterling raids, plagues, and other Dragons

And as we know, they had problems of their own at that time...
__________________
"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories
Legate of Amon Lanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2007, 06:48 AM   #6
Elmo
Pittodrie Poltergeist
 
Elmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again
Posts: 633
Elmo has just left Hobbiton.
In my opinion Boromir made it sound like it was in his memory that people refused the call so they could not have been the early Rhovanians.
__________________
As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair,
The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.
Elmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2007, 01:49 PM   #7
Legate of Amon Lanc
A Voice That Gainsayeth
 
Legate of Amon Lanc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.
What Boromir says exactly is:
Quote:
But still we fight on, holding all the west shores of Anduin; and those who
shelter behind us give us praise, if ever they hear our name: much praise but
little help. Only from Rohan now will any men ride to us when we call.
Which is really interesting, this would suggest someone Boromir really knows and someone who "shelters behind Gondor". Perhaps he might be referring to his recent journey, maybe he was speaking with some men from the wilderness around Tharbad - if they have any knowledge of Gondor - but there could be some remaining tales about the times when Tharbad was held by Gondorians (before 2912 TA)... But I'm not sure: these folks have problems of their own and I think they wouldn't give the Gondorians praise any more than the Breelanders. Or maybe there were some non-Gondorian Men similar to the Oathbreakers hiding on Andrast?

I think the sentence "Only from Rohan now will any men ride to us when we call" does not necessarily mean that Boromir remembers "testing" this call: he might just refer to his political, geographical, historical etc. knowledge. To anyone who looks at the map of M-E it is pretty obvious that at this time there is no realm except of Rohan from where anyone could come to Gondor's aid.
__________________
"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories
Legate of Amon Lanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2007, 01:54 PM   #8
Elmo
Pittodrie Poltergeist
 
Elmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again
Posts: 633
Elmo has just left Hobbiton.
Maybe Tolkien when he was writing it he envisaged more countries of men in the west of Middle Earth when he was writing that chapter then there actually turned out to be (it is quite early in the story) or is that sacrilege here to say that here
__________________
As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair,
The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.
Elmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:38 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.