The Fellowship of the Fourth Age (Part 1): A New Beginning Discussion Thread - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Nogrod · 01-21-2007, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piosenniel

I'm referring to this post on the discussion thread - #835.

Let's just forget that scenario set up for Shae and Khamir - I will take care of the matter in another way.

Yeah. That was what I was referring to in the first place too... And indeed I don't think that it is reasonable to talk over that one as I think there are questions pertaining to the larger picture of affairs we should discuss now. Sorry if I used you as an example of a larger point unfairly. Sorry indeed.

F.ex. if the slavers making a breach would actually be able to create a real havoc - catching or killing something like 4-8 people (if there are 4 possibly free slavers left), it would look a bit more realistic. I think both Khala and Cuáran (as characters I have brought into this game) could be sacrificed - or those yet nameless ones.

But somehow I just think the real soldiers (the slavers) should not lose all the time...

Firefoot · 01-21-2007, 05:35 PM

I think that part of the problem is that each of us is writing for our own character - and most of us certainly aren't ready for our characters to bite the dust yet! We don't have many people writing characters whom they want killed, so that basically means that the characters we are specifically writing about wind up coming out on top in their fights. That's my simple answer.

As long as the numbers work out in the end, it should be fine. Just because it's working out well for the primary characters doesn't mean it necessarily is for everyone.

Nogrod · 01-21-2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firefoot

As long as the numbers work out in the end, it should be fine. Just because it's working out well for the primary characters doesn't mean it necessarily is for everyone.

Your first point (we have our own characters we don't wish to kill) was good, but on this second one I would like to comment. Yes. We should be more ready to
a) kill our "secondary characters"
b) those we have named in passing
c) those we have not named in the first place

Would that sound unfair or bad to you?

For example: I kind of have learned to like Beloan and could see him making a difference in the game after the fight with the slavers ends but we should be ready to kill him off too. Or anyone named... not to talk of writing posts where before unnamed people get killed...

We should also see that it seems that most of the people this far taking part in the fight have been men, so there should be a lots of women (and some children & the elderly) who are not yet accounted for - so a good part of those not named yet are women - hopefully all of them will not die, but a few should...

Brinniel · 01-21-2007, 05:53 PM

I've updated the death count list I made earlier in case anyone cared. I know it at least helps me figure things out...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durelin

Personally, I'd love to have Shae and Khamir kick some more butt.

Well, I like that idea

Shae may be exhausted and injured, but she's certainly determined. I'm sure she'll find another adreneline rush as she attacks her next opponent, and you know how powerful that stuff is.

Nogrod- I meant to write a post with Eirnar and Aedhild earlier and never got around to it. I could still write that post and include plenty of devastation from the ex-slave side in general. I promise the post won't be full of heroics...

Durelin · 01-21-2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I meant to write a post with Eirnar and Aedhild earlier and never got around to it. I could still write that post and include plenty of devastation from the ex-slave side in general. I promise the post won't be full of heroics...

If you don't have the time or would prefer it, I can include the deaths of Eirnar and Aedhild in my post.

Sorry; that will be up as soon as possible. I needed a day off from lots of thinking today, though, so I apologize for not working on it yet.

Child of the 7th Age · 01-21-2007, 06:30 PM

Nogrod,

Killing too many slavers? It's good to remember not to go crazy but my feeling is that things may not be as clear cut or one sided as you suggest. Some of our characters have had success, but others have encountered their share of problems and hardships. In fact at this point, I have grave doubts about killing too many more of the good guys. Let's consider the situation and the numbers. We started off with 77 good guys max (70 slaves, 7 fellowship) and about 24 to 26 slavers.

The initial strategy of the slaves was foiled because Imak split his troops....so right from the first, things were not a piece of cake. The storyline does include scenes where the good guys fought but were unable to bring down their prey. Lindir along with Gretl and Wulf, two members of the original band, tracked several slavers to the southern portions of the camp yet failed to harm the men. Moreover, Lindir and several other members of the fellowship are experienced fighters. Although the elf has been soldiering for several thousand years, stretching back to his days in Beleriand, he has made no kills in this battle. Aiwendil has chased one man out of camp but has also killed no one. And Tevildo's Dorran, an experienced Rider, brought down just one and still bears a head wound from the previous day's skirmish that prevents him from fighting further. (He has retired from the fighting to haul bodies in for treatment. ) We have one major character lying wounded, with no real idea how serious his condition may be. Finally, the charging boar witnessed the deaths of two women and has heard the shrieks of a number of others who are presently being attacked within the grove.

I pulled up the casualty list graciously supplied by Brinniel and updated it with some additional information on those injured, kidnapped, etc.

Slavers:

2- killed by Beloan
1- killed by Kwell
2- killed by Khamir
1- killed by Adnan
1- killed by Dorran
2- killed by Shae (unless you want to count the one from the other night?)
2- killed by Rog
1- killed by Joshwan
1- killed by Reagonn
1- killed by Aiwendil
1- killed by Johari
1- killed by Carl and Kwell
1- killed by Carl and Dirand
1- killed by Kwell and two men
2- killed by Nasim, Gamal, and Zaki
2- killed by Khamir, Nasim, and Gamal

Total: 22

Of course, I'm sure a few more will die as we conclude the battle...

*****I would add two names to this:

Run off/Unknown
Imak
Man chased by boar towards the Orc camp

That makes 24 slavers in trouble or dead.

The there are the dead Ex-Slaves:

1. Tareef
2. Joshwan
3. Erlech
4. Zaki
5. Ayce
6. Darren
7. Korden
8. Syth
9. Reagonn
10. Rowenna
11-12. pregnant woman

Again, you need to add these names among the injured, some more and some less seriously so :

Vror
Dorran
Hadith
Adnan
Rôg

Plus, there were those who had to be rescued:
Tom
Azhar [/i]

That means we've described serious problems for 14 members of our band. There is also the possibility that one or more of those wounded may die or suffer long term impairment. And it is likely that other fighters have fallen quietlly, a fact that is still unknown to us. Plus, when the dust from battle settles, many of those still on their feet will bear additional minor wounds. (Aiwendil certainly will.)

From Aiwendil's description of the activity in the grove and also from Undomie's save, I would estimate we're talking about another 5-6 folk killed or seriously injured among the women and children. That means out of 77 good guys, we've had casualties and mishaps for 24 members of our band. That is about one-third of our total! The temporary loss of one-third of any community is a huge loss, especially when 18 of those have perished (about one-fourth of our total ranks). I honestly don't think we want to hack down too many others. We need enough people to start a community in the north. The heart of this RPG isn't the battle (as fun as that is) but the establishment of a new Mordor and the relations between humans and orcs. We can't have a new Mordor without people to start it.

My only concern here is the number of slavers that I postulated from the beginning. We probably should have gone with a figure around 30 rather than 24-26. But I refuse to be hog tied strictly by an artificial number, especially one that can be so easily changed. What I would like to do, if no one objects, is to go back through the entire thread and change the slavers estimate upward to 30. This could be done very easily with the search function. Would anyone have problems with that? If I adjust that number upward, it would also let those who want to get in their final hacks do so with ease..... (without going crazy, of course). And if another slaver or two takes to the hills or to the orc camp, that would be fine with me.

Quote:

So we need more descriptions of those meetings where "our" people get crashed and lose as otherwise we will soon be needing to adjust the initial number of the slavers and raise their numbers to double our ex-slaves...

One final note regarding this.... One of the constant criticisms of Tolkien is that he lets his major characters off too easily....only one member of the fellowship is actually killed depite the enormous danger. We know there are deaths and injuries going on among the various "good" soldiers during the battles but these are generally not described and, with a few exceptions, happen to characters we don't know well. My gut feeling is that many RPG's done in the spirit of Tolkien tend towards this same model. For the most part I am comfortable with that. And, as I said before, I wouldn't have a problem nudging up the number of slavers by just a bit. Moreover, just as in Tolkien, there is more going on here than first meets the eye. We won't know our full damages until the battle ends and things settle down.

So please don't whack too many more of the good guys down.

Regin Hardhammer · 01-22-2007, 12:44 AM

I filled in my save with a short post. Firefoot - let me know if my use of Grask is alright. Otherwise, I'll edit it.

- Regin

Undómë · 01-22-2007, 01:02 AM

There are 6 women dead, 2 girls, and possibly 3 or 4 small children.

EDIT: WELL, THAT'S WHAT I HAD AT FIRST - BUT NOW THESE NUMBERS ARE NO LONGER TRUE. ONLY 3 WOMEN (MY CHARACTERS) ARE DEAD.

The women are in disarray, running helter-skelter from the grove in different directions.

There are 3 slavers after them (the two original ones Child of the 7th Age mentioned in her post for Aiwendil + another who joined them).

The slavers are each now riding separately from each other after groups of women and children, intending on rounding them up like so much cattle.

The thoroughly clubbed Rôg has been dragged by the women to some shrubs along the edge of the grove's clearing and stuffed out of the way beneath some low-growing bushes.

Brinniel · 01-22-2007, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Aiwendil has chased one man out of camp but has also killed no one.

Whoops...I wasn't sure about that but I guess I assumed that the slaver did die. I need to start reading more carefully.

You can fix that if you like, Child.

Question: Wasn't Rowenna the midwife? I thought so, but now I'm not sure...

Also, you can add Shae to the list of injured. While it's nothing terribly serious, she'll definitely need some attention from Athwen once the battle is over.

Quote:

What I would like to do, if no one objects, is to go back through the entire thread and change the slavers estimate upward to 30.

I like that idea. I think a larger amount of slavers would be better. Besides, I originally thought the number was at 27 or 28.

I'm going to put up a save for Aedhild and Eirnar. Right now, I'm planning to kill off Aedhild for sure....I'll leave the fate of Eirnar up to someone else. I'm not sure when I'll fill in this save, but I'll try to as soon as possible.

Nogrod · 01-22-2007, 02:20 AM

Quote:

... That makes 24 slavers in trouble or dead.......

vs. 12 goodies. So for every ex-slave killed two deaths of slavers...

Quote:

We need enough people to start a community in the north. The heart of this RPG isn't the battle (as fun as that is) but the establishment of a new Mordor and the relations between humans and orcs. We can't have a new Mordor without people to start it.

Sure. As I said, if the storyline requires, we'll do anything.

Quote:

What I would like to do, if no one objects, is to go back through the entire thread and change the slavers estimate upward to 30.

A good idea. Otherwise we would have already run out of the slavers...

And just not to leave any room for misunderstandings: I'm quite happy with this game and enjoy writing it as it is. It was just that I started to feel a bit uncomfortable with the success of our good guys. But that's no major problem anyhow.

Tevildo · 01-22-2007, 02:41 AM

There is no way Dorran could witness that carnage of women and children in the grove and not try to do something depite the likely results, since he already has a head injury......months ago in real time, but just a day ago in game time.

Please reserve one of those three baddies for me. I will fill the post tomorrow.

Undómë · 01-22-2007, 03:05 AM

EDIT:

Nothing to see here really . . . pass on by.

I had originally had counted up 32 slaves as the total being dead or injured.

But that is now revised downward to my own 3 characters being dead in addition to those ex-slaves others killed off in their posts.

01-22-2007, 12:44 AM	#7
Regin Hardhammer Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Tumunzahar/Nogrod Posts: 364	I filled in my save with a short post. Firefoot - let me know if my use of Grask is alright. Otherwise, I'll edit it. - Regin __________________ For once I myself saw with my own eyes the Sibyl at Cumae hanging in a bottle, and when the boys said to her: 'Sibyl, what do you want?' she replied, 'I want to die.'"

01-22-2007, 02:41 AM	#11
Tevildo Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Curled up on Melko's lap Posts: 425	There is no way Dorran could witness that carnage of women and children in the grove and not try to do something depite the likely results, since he already has a head injury......months ago in real time, but just a day ago in game time. Please reserve one of those three baddies for me. I will fill the post tomorrow. __________________ Now Tevildo was a mighty cat--the mightiest of all--and possessed of an evil spirit,...and he was in Melko's constant following; and that cat had all cats subject to him, and he and his subjects were the chasers and getters of meat for Melko's table.

01-22-2007, 03:05 AM	#12
Undómë Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 400	EDIT: Nothing to see here really . . . pass on by. I had originally had counted up 32 slaves as the total being dead or injured. But that is now revised downward to my own 3 characters being dead in addition to those ex-slaves others killed off in their posts. __________________ Young she was and yet not so. The braids of her dark hair were touched by no frost, her white arms and clear face were flawless and smooth, and the light of stars was in her bright eyes, grey as a cloudless night . . . Last edited by Undómë; 01-23-2007 at 03:35 AM.

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01-21-2007, 05:35 PM	#2
Firefoot Illusionary Holbytla Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 7,547	I think that part of the problem is that each of us is writing for our own character - and most of us certainly aren't ready for our characters to bite the dust yet! We don't have many people writing characters whom they want killed, so that basically means that the characters we are specifically writing about wind up coming out on top in their fights. That's my simple answer. As long as the numbers work out in the end, it should be fine. Just because it's working out well for the primary characters doesn't mean it necessarily is for everyone.

01-22-2007, 01:02 AM	#8
Undómë Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 400	There are 6 women dead, 2 girls, and possibly 3 or 4 small children. EDIT: WELL, THAT'S WHAT I HAD AT FIRST - BUT NOW THESE NUMBERS ARE NO LONGER TRUE. ONLY 3 WOMEN (MY CHARACTERS) ARE DEAD. The women are in disarray, running helter-skelter from the grove in different directions. There are 3 slavers after them (the two original ones Child of the 7th Age mentioned in her post for Aiwendil + another who joined them). The slavers are each now riding separately from each other after groups of women and children, intending on rounding them up like so much cattle. The thoroughly clubbed Rôg has been dragged by the women to some shrubs along the edge of the grove's clearing and stuffed out of the way beneath some low-growing bushes. __________________ Young she was and yet not so. The braids of her dark hair were touched by no frost, her white arms and clear face were flawless and smooth, and the light of stars was in her bright eyes, grey as a cloudless night . . . Last edited by Undómë; 01-23-2007 at 03:01 AM.