Tolkien and Norse Mythology

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Legate

Back to Gandalf-Odin, I also remember that the scene before the Battle of Five armies when a clooked figure shows Thorin the Arkenstone, I always imagined Gandalf there as Odin...

Of course in Norse myth, there's also the Brisingamen, the magical necklace wron by Freyja, which was forged by four Dwarves (one is called Dvalin) and which she gives to those warriors who she favours in war. It appears in the story of Beowulf, where the uncannily named Hama appears.

Another slightly random link is the Bifrost Bridge between Asgard (Aman) and Midgard (Middle-earth) which makes me think right away of Helcaraxe. But in the myths Bifrost Bridge is a rainbow, which would make it unlike Helcaraxe, but rather like the notion of the Straight Road. It makes me think of what Frodo sees as he goes that way:

And the ship went out into the High Sea and passed on into the West, until at last on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise.

Originally Posted by Rune

I would very muched have liked to have this kind of charachter in Tolkiens books, it would be a nice change from all the "Good guy" "Bad guy" stuff there is going on.

I am not saying that there are not charachters with both good and bad traits in tolkiens books, there are. I just would really have loved to see a complex person, that one would not know where to place. . . Is he good or is he bad?

I don't know. I think that almost all of the characters we see are anything but perfect. Of course we all know they are on the 'good' side from our advantage as readers, but it doesn't seem that way from the point of view of someone in Middle-earth. Would you for example, as an ordinary person in Rohan really know Eomer was innocent after your King had condemned him? Would you as an ordinary Dunlending know that Saruman was using you? If you were Sam, would you trust Frodo on Gollum? If you were one of Denethor's loyal Men would you trust Gandalf?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

I don't know. I think that almost all of the characters we see are anything but perfect. Of course we all know they are on the 'good' side from our advantage as readers, but it doesn't seem that way from the point of view of someone in Middle-earth. Would you for example, as an ordinary person in Rohan really know Eomer was innocent after your King had condemned him? Would you as an ordinary Dunlending know that Saruman was using you? If you were Sam, would you trust Frodo on Gollum? If you were one of Denethor's loyal Men would you trust Gandalf?

Exactly. This is one thing we still seem to forget, or to lose (like when you look and something and then, you move your sight elsewhere and you no longer remember exactly what it looked like): the Secondary world of Middle-Earth has its own reality. And this reality is very much real, because the characters are real. Yes, they are mythical, but they could live next door and they'd seem "normal" to you (well, except these strange outfits or liliputan sizes). They are all complex. So that's not what would bother me, Rune.

Back to the original topic. One more thing I now remembered about that ring of Odin. I am not sure, but wasn't it also... well... used to control the Valkyries? Which brings me to... Is there known the number of the Valkyries? But there were surely more than just nine, were they...
You know, also, the Valkyries riding wolves and flying in the skies over the battlefield , make a very good image of the Nazgul. Being Sauron/Odin's followers, I find this resemblance pretty close.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I have never heard that the Ring of Odin was ment to controll the valkyries, but it did spawn 8 other rings each 9th night. Odin being a ring-lord shows how mighty he is, as said the act of giving out rings said a lot of the giver. Although it did not give Odin the kind of unbreakable power over the holders of the Rings as Sauron, it still symbolise that he hold power over these and the power is not that easily broken.

In the "Valkyrie Song" about the battle at Clontarf 12 Valkyries is spottet. . .I had never thought of the "darker" side of the valyries, But I can see how it would have been a fright full sight and one could think that the inspiriation of them would have been death-demons (Nazgul?).
If only the valkyiry did not pour mead to the warriors in Valhal. . .but then again it would not be very like Tolkien to copy charachters and that is what really facinates me. . .the way he takes part of a mythology/legend and puts it into a charachter, but always with twists and other mytsh and legends mixed into it.

I totaly agree with you Lal, a normal person would not have known. I however am not a normal person and I was speaking strictly from my point of view as a reader. I would have liked to be decieved by Tolkien, because I think he had the skills to make it convincing.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

If only the valkyiry did not pour mead to the warriors in Valhal. .

Anyone having read the parody "Bored of the Rings" is familiar with the nazgûls serving as waitresses in the Prancing Pony...!

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Actually I own that book and hav read it, but I did not remember this.