Where did all the goblins go? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elmo · 02-05-2007, 10:03 AM

'Feigned history'

So Middle Earth isn't real then...

ninja91 · 02-05-2007, 01:52 PM

Also pure speculation...

This is Mordor, so there are not too many forests nearby besides Ithilien. I am guessing that the fled into Khand and beyond or just hid in the mountain ranges of Mordor.

mhagain · 02-05-2007, 02:03 PM

...and re-emerged several thousand years later as door-to-door insurance salesmen.

On a more serious note, I don't really see how it could have been much different to the situation at the end of the First, when Thangorodrim was broken. I could easily imagine nests of them hiding out in more secluded places, probably engaged in petty banditry and thuggishness.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 02-05-2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhagain

On a more serious note, I don't really see how it could have been much different to the situation at the end of the First, when Thangorodrim was broken. I could easily imagine nests of them hiding out in more secluded places, probably engaged in petty banditry and thuggishness.

...and the same way as in the First, they were forced to go more further to the East... further to the East... further to the East... until they, finally ,were forced to settle down at Kalormë, the Mountain of the Rising Sun

Where did all the goblins go, long time passing?
Where did all the goblins go, long time ago?
Where did all the goblins go?
Young girls have picked them everyone.
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

(But no, I don't want to think what would have to be in the last but one strophe. It's really disgusting.)

The 1,000 Reader · 02-05-2007, 11:30 PM

With a united, peaceful kingdom being Aragorn's goal, and with no evil being to rally under, it is likely that the orcs all died. As for crossed myths and such, beings such as Grendel could just be like the Watcher in the Water.

Rhod the Red · 02-05-2007, 11:51 PM

I bet they fought amongst themselves a little, in the panic of leaderless hordes after an ambush to 'punish' 'stupid' scouts, etc.

Selmo · 02-06-2007, 03:24 AM

After the destruction of the Ring and it's power over the minds of the Orcs, I can imagine the Orcs of the Misty Mountains becoming useful members of the Reunited Kingdom.

Aragorn's forces would be too strong for them to take up their old ways of making a living. To survive they would have to take up a more honest trade. They could start by opening up their tunnels through the mountains to provide safe, all weather routes for the ever-increasing trade between East and West, for heavy tolls, of course.
They could then branch out into providing other services for travellers: a chain of inns along the main roads, ending in a hugh hotel in Fornost; a nation-wide pony-hire service; fast food outlets across the North.

Building on their experiences in Isengard and their profits from road-houses, the Orcs could go on to develope steam engines, leading eventually to OrcRail, a transport network spanning the whole of Middle Earth, creating an era of peace and prosperity, binding the Reunited Kingdom to it's neighbours in alliances of mutual trade.

The orcs become the glue that holds Middle Earth together.
.

littlemanpoet · 02-06-2007, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The 1,000 Reader

With a united, peaceful kingdom being Aragorn's goal, and with no evil being to rally under, it is likely that the orcs all died. As for crossed myths and such, beings such as Grendel could just be like the Watcher in the Water.

Nyet. Grendel's lineage is, in Beowulf, traced from Cain, eldest son of Adam and Eve. At least that's the mythological construction the author of Beowulf uses.

But I have proof that orcs outlived Sauron: Tolkien in his Letters to his son Christopher repeatedly referred to "orcs on both sides of the war" and such like; apparently, they merged with the races of Men.

And Selmo, are you sure you haven't been reading any "Assigned to Mordor" rpgs lately? "Orcs as the glue of society" is just plain hilarious.

mhagain · 02-06-2007, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

But I have proof that orcs outlived Sauron: Tolkien in his Letters to his son Christopher repeatedly referred to "orcs on both sides of the war" and such like; apparently, they merged with the races of Men.

Oh you wit.

On a serious note, the only hard evidence we seem to have is that orcs were certainly capable of outliving Melkor (when Sauron had also - initially - surrendered).

In the absence of any statement either way, it's quite reasonable to assume that if they were capable of outliving Melkor, outliving Sauron would have been a relative doddle. If one were able to pin down JRRT today and put the question to him, I suspect he'd answer either "preposterous! of course they obviously did!" or "preposterous! of course they obviously didn't!"

Hmmmm - I wonder does "The New Shadow" have anything to say on the matter? Plus I seem to recall either a letter or essay where he said straight up that there would not have been a direct cut off from Sauron's reign to Aragorn's, and that there was still a lot of evil to be rooted out and destroyed.

littlemanpoet · 02-08-2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by me

But I have proof that orcs outlived Sauron: Tolkien in his Letters to his son Christopher repeatedly referred to "orcs on both sides of the war" and such like; apparently, they merged with the races of Men.

Believe it or not, someone lacking the intestinal fortitude to identify himself

challenged me on this, claiming there was no such evidence in Tolkien's Letters for it. So, From a letter to Christopher Tolkien dated 6 May 1944 (FS 22):

Quote:

...For we are attempting to conquer Sauron with the Ring. And we shall (it seems) succeed. But the penalty is, as you will know, to breed new Saurons, and slowly turn Men and Elves into Orcs. Not that in real life such things are as clear cut as in a story, and we started out with a great many Orcs on our side . . . . Well, there you are: a hobbit amongst the Urukhai.

Pish. That was too easy.

Sardy · 02-06-2007, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Where did all the goblins go, long time passing?
Where did all the goblins go, long time ago?
Where did all the goblins go?
Young girls have picked them everyone.
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

Believe it or not, I was actually humming that as I started this thread..!

Legate of Amon Lanc · 02-06-2007, 10:56 AM

Ah! Then it starts to make sense to me. And did you hum it before, or after you named the thread? Because this popped up in my mind just after I saw the title.

02-05-2007, 10:03 AM	#1
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	'Feigned history' So Middle Earth isn't real then... __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.

02-05-2007, 11:30 PM	#5
The 1,000 Reader Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: I don't know. Eastern ME doesn't have maps. Posts: 527	With a united, peaceful kingdom being Aragorn's goal, and with no evil being to rally under, it is likely that the orcs all died. As for crossed myths and such, beings such as Grendel could just be like the Watcher in the Water. __________________ "And forth went Morgoth, and he was halted by the elves. Then went Sauron, who was stopped by a dog and then aged men. Finally, there came the Witch-King, who destroyed Arnor, but nobody seems to remember that." -A History of Villains

02-05-2007, 11:51 PM	#6
Rhod the Red Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 257	I bet they fought amongst themselves a little, in the panic of leaderless hordes after an ambush to 'punish' 'stupid' scouts, etc. __________________ Head of the Fifth Order of the Istari Tenure: Fourth Age(Year 1) - Present Currently operating in Melbourne, Australia

02-06-2007, 10:56 AM	#12
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Ah! Then it starts to make sense to me. And did you hum it before, or after you named the thread? Because this popped up in my mind just after I saw the title. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

02-05-2007, 02:03 PM	#3
mhagain Wight Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: The best seat in the Golden Perch Posts: 219	...and re-emerged several thousand years later as door-to-door insurance salesmen. On a more serious note, I don't really see how it could have been much different to the situation at the end of the First, when Thangorodrim was broken. I could easily imagine nests of them hiding out in more secluded places, probably engaged in petty banditry and thuggishness.

02-06-2007, 03:24 AM	#7
Selmo Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Shire (Staffordshire), United Kingdom Posts: 273	After the destruction of the Ring and it's power over the minds of the Orcs, I can imagine the Orcs of the Misty Mountains becoming useful members of the Reunited Kingdom. Aragorn's forces would be too strong for them to take up their old ways of making a living. To survive they would have to take up a more honest trade. They could start by opening up their tunnels through the mountains to provide safe, all weather routes for the ever-increasing trade between East and West, for heavy tolls, of course. They could then branch out into providing other services for travellers: a chain of inns along the main roads, ending in a hugh hotel in Fornost; a nation-wide pony-hire service; fast food outlets across the North. Building on their experiences in Isengard and their profits from road-houses, the Orcs could go on to develope steam engines, leading eventually to OrcRail, a transport network spanning the whole of Middle Earth, creating an era of peace and prosperity, binding the Reunited Kingdom to it's neighbours in alliances of mutual trade. The orcs become the glue that holds Middle Earth together. .