The mis-interpretation of dear Gimli

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Yes. Something like in the current movie trand every action Main Hero (here represented by Aragorn) must have two sidekicks, who would have to be a nice lass (here represented by Legolas) and a funny fat cop (here represented by Gimli).

[Elladan and Elrohir]

Humor is something the films desperately need, and how much of it is there beyond Gimli? Precious little. Merry and Pippin supply some comic relief in the first one, and Gollum gives you a bit at a couple of points, but there's not much else. I don't have a problem with Gimli being the butt of jokes. Better him than, well, just about any other major character.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Elladan and Elrohir

Better him than, well, just about any other major character.

Gimli is one of my favourite characters (in the book) & I'd rather he had been treated with the respect he deserved. I don't go along with this idea that one character can be thrown to the 'wolves' to provide comic relief - it wasn't inevitable that one character had to be turned into a joke. The BBC adaptation didn't do it, & was all the better (& more effective) for it.

I wish those who defend the changes made to the story in the movies 'for dramatic reasons' would listen to that series to see how it should be done. Tolkien's story can be dramatised as is & work - if Tolkien is trusted. The problem was that the movie makers didn't trust Tolkien - where his work survives the transition the movies work, where the writers think they can 'improve' his work they fall flat on their face.

[Elladan and Elrohir]

For the record, I have heard the BBC adaptation, and it's outstanding, though parts of it -- such as the Nazgul, the Orcs, and Gollum -- make me cringe.

The BBC adaptation was made for radio. You can more or less transpose a book to radio without having to change much. It can be like reading the book aloud, with different actors in different roles, and adding sound effects. It's totally different for a movie. Pacing is different, story arc is different, what works or doesn't work is different. People often get offended at some of the major changes PJ and Co. made: "I can't believe they changed that! Why'd they do that?" Well, it wasn't just 'cause they felt like it, in most cases, anyway. PJ, Walsh, and Boyens won an Oscar for their screenwriting efforts, so I'd say they know a bit more about the craft and about the process of adapting books to film than we do.

Having said that, that of course doesn't give them the license to do whatever they want with LOTR and get away with it because of their superior knowledge. We're obviously still free to question changes, and it may well be that PJ and Co. are wrong in some areas.

And also, davem, while I would agree that PJ and Co. do well when they stick to the book, some of the films' greatest moments come in their departures. The lighting of the beacons in ROTK springs to mind immediately. The first encounter with the Black Rider. The death of Boromir. The exorcism of Theoden. Shelob's spectacularly suspenseful sting of Frodo. The plunge at Mount Doom. Regardless of what you think of those scenes' infidelity to the books, they certainly played well on screen, didn't they? It's not that they're better than the books; it's just that they work better in a movie than the way the book had it. And I don't think it's blaspheming Tolkien to admit that.

[The 1,000 Reader]

I thought Gimil was alright. He seemed to be stout, brave, yet lively, unlike the rather dark elves.

[Rhod the Red]

The only Gimli joke I didn't like was falling of the horse in TTT then saying "That was deliberate!"

[davem]

Originally Posted by Elladan and Elrohir

And also, davem, while I would agree that PJ and Co. do well when they stick to the book, some of the films' greatest moments come in their departures. The lighting of the beacons in ROTK springs to mind immediately. The first encounter with the Black Rider. The death of Boromir. The exorcism of Theoden. Shelob's spectacularly suspenseful sting of Frodo. The plunge at Mount Doom. Regardless of what you think of those scenes' infidelity to the books, they certainly played well on screen, didn't they? It's not that they're better than the books; it's just that they work better in a movie than the way the book had it. And I don't think it's blaspheming Tolkien to admit that.

The Beacons scene was impressive - unfortunately it was completely illogical not to have lit them & summoned aid before, so it made no sense. The exorcism if Theoden was just silly - Theoden was not 'possessed' by Saruman, but psychologically broken by Wormtongue. The whole 'demonic possession' thing was a daft idea. There was nothing suspenseful about Shelob at all - Shelob is 'an evil thing in spider form', not a big spider. And the Mount Doom scenes (Frodo & Gollum in fisticuffs at dawn ) just annoyed me.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Elladan and Elrohir

For the record, I have heard the BBC adaptation, and it's outstanding, though parts of it -- such as the Nazgul, the Orcs, and Gollum -- make me cringe.

Ooh could be a quintet for the radio thread then - I have started to prepare and certainly the structuring is something I would like to discuss. Personally I think the radio Gollum is superior so I would like to hear your reasons. The sound effects are the cringe bits forme - Legolas' bow sounds like a flabby elastic band and Gollum is being tortured with an empty stapler

[mhagain]

The trouble here is that cinema is a completely different medium, and what works well in a book (or a radio dramatisation) doesn't always do likewise in a movie. Maybe PJ & co just wanted to get in some of the information about dwarf women from the appendices? A laudable objective, and it serves to round off the species, make them seem more real. In all honesty, the interplay between Gimli and Eowyn in that particular scene is very good, and does serve as a moment of light-hearted relief before the heavy stuff comes crashing down. The pratfall is regrettable, but it does create a genuine dramatic contrast with what happens just after it.

It has to be admitted that Gimli gets one of the best scenes in the entire trilogy too - the "never thought I'd die fighting side by side with an Elf" scene. Beautiful stuff, and I can forgive a lot of crimes for that.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by mhagain

Maybe PJ & co just wanted to get in some of the information about dwarf women from the appendices? A laudable objective, and it serves to round off the species, make them seem more real.

If they had wanted to introduce ME they should have done it in a non-joking way, the current "ME information" is that "see, see, we have these freaky bearded women here too! OMG!"

But admitted, that scene is not totally horrible.