Denethor's plunge

[Folwren]

Hm. I never considered the distance he'd have to run. I never liked the part in the movie. When he does it in the book, he's so cool about it... Not cool, wrong word, I mean, he's so brave about it.

I would probably say that it was impossible. Have you ever burnt your finger on a stove or something? I don't know about you, but I hop around the kitchen, waving my hand in pain, and after ten seconds, have the wits to run to the sink and stick it under the faucet. Okay, okay, okay, so maybe that's a little bit exagerated, but it's tough to move sensibly. I can't imagine what my body would be doing while my mind was consumed in pain while I was fully engulfed in flames.

But, really, I know nothing about it. That's only my opinion, and it may not be very intelligent.

[alatar]

The first few layers of skin burnt from the Steward rather quickly, leaving him in so much agony that the pain center in his brain shut down and went home for the day. Purportedly there is evidence that when an animal (and possibly human) is in pain and about to die that the body can shut off the pain (why bother sending the message) or send in enough endorphines to smooth things over.

Also, we may want to test the effect of a large intact of tomatoes has on one's flame retardance and running speed (Don't be stupid, by the by). And, one may think that the flames reduced the Steward's mass, making it a little easier to run, and the flames surely gave some lift as well (hot air rising and all).

But in the end methinks that, at that last moment, Denethor finally came to his senses, left despair behind and ran out to due his duty, diving for a Battle Troll.

[Celegost]

If youve got a chainmail hauberk and a life-sized replica of Minas Tirith,
yeah!

[Knight of Gondor]

Your post is a delightful mix of reason and insanity. I would agree that our mind may not process the pain if we're experiencing it to extremes, but that doesn't undo the actual damage done. Flames severe enough to burn away layers of skin would be severe enough to be incapacitating.

I assume you're kidding about Denethor trying to take on a troll?

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Knight of Gondor

I assume you're kidding about Denethor trying to take on a troll?

I would say he was...haha

By the way, on a serious note, on this day in Middle-earth (March 15th) Denethor burnt himself on the pyre. Alas for Denethor!

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Knight of Gondor

I would agree that our mind may not process the pain if we're experiencing it to extremes, but that doesn't undo the actual damage done. Flames severe enough to burn away layers of skin would be severe enough to be incapacitating.

It's noted that third degree burns are not painful; however, there would be associated 1st and 2nd degree, so...

The biggest problem I can see is holding one's breath for the amount of time it takes to run from Rath Dínen to the wall outside the Citadel. Those flames are going to drink oxygen from any nearby source, and that would include lungs. We can assume that Denethor, having traveled the path many times, could run the distance without sight (for whatever reason), but without air? Even if he were an Olympic speedster, that would take about a minute, and a long minute that would be.

I assume you're kidding about Denethor trying to take on a troll?

Really? Why else the effort?

"In later days, when at the end of a long day, in the tavens a man might order a 'Flaming Steward,' and drink a salute to Denethor the Brave, he who gave all at the end in the defense of his city, as commemorated by the eternal flaming stature (see attached) standing inside the Gate of Minas Tirith, where the Last Steward fell, felling a foul foe in his fall."

[Celegost]

He He He....funny picture

[Essex]

of course PJ's rath dinen could have been directly under where we see denethor run - and a little tunnel that brings him up just outside the sheer drop off the edge.

and what always amuses me is that we moan about things not being physically possible i.e. denethor's run / gandalf catching up with the balrog etc, but we don't mind the fact that wearing a ring can make you invisible!!!!

[Celegost]

I agree....who cares about the science? And yes, there could have been a tunnel/stairs/extra fast escalator....

[Knight of Gondor]

Originally Posted by Essex

of course PJ's rath dinen could have been directly under where we see denethor run - and a little tunnel that brings him up just outside the sheer drop off the edge.

and what always amuses me is that we moan about things not being physically possible i.e. denethor's run / gandalf catching up with the balrog etc, but we don't mind the fact that wearing a ring can make you invisible!!!!

I have photographic proof that that would be, as the immortal Vizzini said, inconceivable, in fact that the entire run of Denethor would be completely and totally inconceivable!


Overhead shot of the pinnacle of Gondor.


Photo demonstration of the length of the across the courtyard.


Distance of the bridge Denethor would have needed to run.


Better shot showing the incredible length of the bridge to Rath Dínen, as well as showing Denethor would have had to run up some flights of steps!


Final shot showing the path Denethor traversed to get to the tip and launch himself into a flaming oblivion.

From these pictures, IT IS CLEAR THAT DENETHOR COULD NOT HAVE MADE THIS LONG-DISTANCE SPRINT WHILE AFLAME. This dash would have taken him at least three minutes to make, counting his trip back through the hallways leading back to the Silent Street, the long bridge, the flights of stairs and the courtyard.

Conclusion? The guy made it back to the courtyard and doused himself in the water by the tree. However, Shadowfax (having not yet fully exacted his equine vengance) chased him down with a torch and reignited him, leaving the sprightly Steward no choice but to vault himself over the edge.

Plan B Conclusion: Nazgul (not Witchking) picked Denethor up and carried him a piece before putting him down because its claws were getting scorched.