Morgoth's Return

[Elmo]

But then you could say anything could be in Middle Earth because Tolkien doesn't mention it! He states Eru is the most powerful thing there is.

[Lord Halsar]

the most powerful being... known. what of others that are beyond the knowledge of the elves. or so powerful and dark that the elves chose to forget them long ago.

[Aiwendil]

And what if the Silmarillion is actually set in the Star Trek universe and it's all a big holodeck simulation? Then at the end of Time Iluvatar utters: "Computer, end program" and Arda disappears?

I don't mean to mock your suggestion, Halsar, but the point is that if one's argument is lack of evidence one can argue anything.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Lord Halsar -

This is an intriguing concept to play with in a fantasy world of your own. However, given what we know about Tolkien's middle-earth, I do not see how such a creature could exist in the Legendarium. Everything we know about Tolkien's world would contradict the exist of a being who is "mightier" than Eru and entirely secret.

In my view, this is not a possibility.

With all the emphasis on the readers' right to interpret and the de-emphasis of canon, I still can't help feeling that some things are just "wrong"....at least if what the author says has any importance.

[Lord Halsar]

yes, but what do we truly know of Eru Illuvatar anyway? since arda was formed, he mostly just sat idly by and watched the events turn and wars wage. whos to say that another being would not wage war against him.

[Lord Halsar]

i am merely thinking out loud. i have no intention of harming Tolkiens reputation or his idea's. that would be something that would be utterly against my nature.
so consider my point of veiw before you cast judgement upon my answers.

[Thenamir]

Last chance LH -- tell us where Tolkien ever said or implied this, or I will close this thread forthwith.

[Lord Halsar]

as i said before. i am merely thinking out loud. no reason to take such actions as such. if my comments have angered you in some way then i apologize. but as you said, you cannot stop me from considering such notions.
i meen no disrespect.

[Lord Halsar]

does anyone else have any desire for this to close?

[Thenamir]

This is not personal, LH. However, this is a forum for the discussion of Tolkien and Tolkien-related material. We try to allow, within reasonable limits, supposition and what-iffing based on things that have been hinted at or left loose, but to borrow from Aiwendil, it's rather like imagining what Sauron might have been able to accomplish if he'd had a Klingon warship at his command, or if they could have just gotten Scotty to beam the Ring into Mount Doom. It has nothing to do with "the world that is" -- by that I mean, it's not based on anything that could reasonably be supposed within the established boundaries of Tolkien's works.

Let me know via PM if you need further clarification.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Nobody's trying to stop you considering notions that never appear in any of Tolkien's published writings, and are at variance with his whole philosophical position as far as it can be ascertained from those writings. Everyone is telling you that there's no point in discussing an idea the evidence for which is the complete lack of evidence in support of it. You can believe what you like, but here we discuss Tolkien's books and theories derived directly therefrom. If there are passages in the books or letters that suggest your theory then we can discuss it here, and I for one will gladly do that; but if this is just something that popped into your head spontaneously then it really doesn't belong here.

I mean, do I go around the forum propounding my theory that Fingolfin's battle with Morgoth is a mnemonic reminding Tolkien to pick up his robe from the dry cleaners? Well, not often, and not outside Mirth. Except just this once here for illustration.

and besides, with Tolkien, anything is possible

That is so far from being the case that it isn't even funny.

[Thenamir]

Lord Halsar, if you have no Tolkien-related reason for thinking as you do, then of course we cannot stop you. However, if you are going to bring this topic to a Tolkien forum such as the Barrow Downs, you should have some support for your position more substantial than "what if". Show us where Tolkien might have said or implied what you are supposing, or leave it alone.