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Old 03-30-2007, 10:43 AM   #1
Child of the 7th Age
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Lord Halsar -

This is an intriguing concept to play with in a fantasy world of your own. However, given what we know about Tolkien's middle-earth, I do not see how such a creature could exist in the Legendarium. Everything we know about Tolkien's world would contradict the exist of a being who is "mightier" than Eru and entirely secret.

In my view, this is not a possibility.

With all the emphasis on the readers' right to interpret and the de-emphasis of canon, I still can't help feeling that some things are just "wrong"....at least if what the author says has any importance.
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:48 AM   #2
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yes, but what do we truly know of Eru Illuvatar anyway? since arda was formed, he mostly just sat idly by and watched the events turn and wars wage. whos to say that another being would not wage war against him.
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:54 AM   #3
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i am merely thinking out loud. i have no intention of harming Tolkiens reputation or his idea's. that would be something that would be utterly against my nature.
so consider my point of veiw before you cast judgement upon my answers.
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:54 AM   #4
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Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Last chance LH -- tell us where Tolkien ever said or implied this, or I will close this thread forthwith.
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:57 AM   #5
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as i said before. i am merely thinking out loud. no reason to take such actions as such. if my comments have angered you in some way then i apologize. but as you said, you cannot stop me from considering such notions.
i meen no disrespect.
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:04 AM   #6
Lord Halsar
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does anyone else have any desire for this to close?
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:07 AM   #7
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Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
This is not personal, LH. However, this is a forum for the discussion of Tolkien and Tolkien-related material. We try to allow, within reasonable limits, supposition and what-iffing based on things that have been hinted at or left loose, but to borrow from Aiwendil, it's rather like imagining what Sauron might have been able to accomplish if he'd had a Klingon warship at his command, or if they could have just gotten Scotty to beam the Ring into Mount Doom. It has nothing to do with "the world that is" -- by that I mean, it's not based on anything that could reasonably be supposed within the established boundaries of Tolkien's works.

Let me know via PM if you need further clarification.
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:10 AM   #8
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I am not implying anything of the sort. i dont even watch Star Trek. i am merely attempting to keep minds open and the forums going. is that not what we are trying to do?
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:13 AM   #9
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Tolkien

and besides, with Tolkien, anything is possible.
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:20 AM   #10
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Pipe QED for my point about literary criticism, methinks

Nobody's trying to stop you considering notions that never appear in any of Tolkien's published writings, and are at variance with his whole philosophical position as far as it can be ascertained from those writings. Everyone is telling you that there's no point in discussing an idea the evidence for which is the complete lack of evidence in support of it. You can believe what you like, but here we discuss Tolkien's books and theories derived directly therefrom. If there are passages in the books or letters that suggest your theory then we can discuss it here, and I for one will gladly do that; but if this is just something that popped into your head spontaneously then it really doesn't belong here.

I mean, do I go around the forum propounding my theory that Fingolfin's battle with Morgoth is a mnemonic reminding Tolkien to pick up his robe from the dry cleaners? Well, not often, and not outside Mirth. Except just this once here for illustration.
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and besides, with Tolkien, anything is possible
That is so far from being the case that it isn't even funny.
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:27 AM   #11
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Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
OK. You can choose to believe Tolkien, an expert in languages, wrote something clearly opposite of his intent. I choose to believe that Lord Halsar is actually davem in disguise.
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:59 AM   #12
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Thre will be no return for Morgoth until the end of time, when ME is about to cease to exist. Sauron is finished for good, the Witch King is a more likely candidate but unlikely as the power of his Master in him is no more. Though one cannot rule out the Nazgul returning in their original form prior to being seized by Sauron & his Rings of power, as though they have been released from a spell.

There are times when I believe that these thread moderators are a bit too heavy handed with their actions & thoughts on people's posts. Unless there is naughty behaviour exchanged between posters, naughty punishments should not be delivered. Some obscurity is essential in threads to allow a far-reaching debate, & besides there are no more obscure creatures in any world than Hobbits!

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