More than meets the Eye

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I might also add, that when Pippin was looking into the Palantír, he saw Sauron - and probably in physical form, judging from Pippin's style of description:

Then he came. He did not speak so that I could hear words. He just looked, and I understood.
'"So you have come back? Why have you neglected to report for so long?"
I did not answer. He said: "Who are you?" I still did not answer, but it hurt me horribly; and he pressed me, so I said: "A hobbit."
Then suddenly he seemed to see me, and he laughed at me. It was cruel. It was like being stabbed with knives. I struggled. But he said: "Wait a moment! We shall meet again soon. Tell Saruman that this dainty is not for him. I will send for it at once. Do you understand? Say just that!"
Then he gloated over me. I felt I was falling to pieces. No, no! I can't say any more. I don't remember anything else.

[MatthewM]

But...but...I thought that Gandalf said Sauron wasn't powerful enough without the Ring to take physical form?

[Boromir88]

Mathew, I think you might be confusing some lines with the movies. I know in the movies Gandalf says he can not yet take a physical form, but I don't remember that being in the books.

Raynor mentioned Gollum's remark (in The Black Gate is Closed) where Gollum remarks that Sauron had 'four fingers on his black hand; but that is enough.'

Also there are several instances where there is a reference to Sauron coming...Legate mentioned Pippin's encounter with the palantir...'Then he came.' Another one that comes to mind is when Denethor says 'He will only come to triumph over me when all is won.'

And...

'But that of course did not destroy the spirit, nor dismiss it from the world to which it was bound until the end. After the battle with Gilgalad and Elendil, Sauron took a long while to re-build, longer than he had done after the Downfall of Numenor (I suppose because each building-up used up some of the inherent energy of the spirit, which might be called the 'will' or the effective link between the indestructible mind and being and the realization of its imagination).'~Letter 200

After Sauron was overthrown by Gil-galad and Elendil Sauron did re-build his body, it just took him longer than before. I guess you could read this as implying if you simply killed Sauron enough times he wouldn't have enough 'will' to build himself a new body.

[MatthewM]

Good post. Yeah, I was posting that with the movies in mind. Sometimes I forget that PJ made a lot of things that shouldn't have been made up, up.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

After Sauron was overthrown by Gil-galad and Elendil Sauron did re-build his body, it just took him longer than before. I guess you could read this as implying if you simply killed Sauron enough times he wouldn't have enough 'will' to build himself a new body.

Also, in each reincarnation, Sauron's form devolved into his more inward disposition. No longer could he take the fair form of Annatar and hope by his outward beauty to deceive; his evil got the best of even his appearance, as seen similarly in the last days of Saruman.

It was either that or the pipeweed smoke.

It does make one wonder, at the end of all things in RotK (the book), what Aragorn and company do with the body (if anything even existed), armour and/or effects of Sauron? Were they spirited away by henchmen so that a new power could arise with the literal mantle of the Dark Lord in the Fourth Age?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by alatar

It does make one wonder, at the end of all things in RotK (the book), what Aragorn and company do with the body (if anything even existed), armour and/or effects of Sauron? Were they spirited away by henchmen so that a new power could arise with the literal mantle of the Dark Lord in the Fourth Age?

Um... I'm not sure, but I was under the impression that they ended buried in the ruins of Barad-Dur. Maybe some late Fourth-Age archaeologists could be able to find them, but I don't think Aragorn&co would have any access to them, or any need to solve these things.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Um... I'm not sure, but I was under the impression that they ended buried in the ruins of Barad-Dur. Maybe some late Fourth-Age archaeologists could be able to find them, but I don't think Aragorn&co would have any access to them, or any need to solve these things.

Sure, and the One Ring rolled down the Anduin to the Sea...

It was just a thought, as a body has clothes, stuff ends up in its pocketses, and what a good start to some fanfic (or ME AD&D campaign) this would make.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by alatar

It was just a thought, as a body has clothes, stuff ends up in its pocketses, and what a good start to some fanfic (or ME AD&D campaign) this would make.

Yes, but come on, that's one of the most (tries to think of a corresponding English word. Heck, who cares) overcooked thing which comes to a person's mind in the first moment when he wants to make a sequel. A typical "braque fantasy" story. "Gwahlrd Ndhaarad from Khand was a simple peasant. In his eighteen years, he is banished from his tribe. Treading the vast desert of Gorgoroth, he finds an ancient artifact of incredible power - the armor of Sauron the Dark Lord. Gwahlrd returns to his homeland, where he claims the rulership of his tribe and soon, the following tribes as well. What he does not know is, that the will of the Dark Lord still remains in the black armor, and that slowly, he starts to become something even he did not predice... a new Dark Lord of Middle-Earth."
(This could be written on the back of a paperback book, quite many silly fans will certainly buy it.)

(...and of course, under it there will be written: "First book of the Eastwar Saga")

[Raynor]

Hm, how about Sauron's body vanishing altogether when he died, in a manner somewhat similar to Feanor's? After all, it was the power of the ring that made it possible for him to have this body in the first place.