Werewolf XXXI: The Unknown Enemies

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by the guy who be short

I'd rather a more important gifted (the Hunter isn't that important) declared themselves rather than letting themselves be killed. THat would be a huge blow, losing a gifted by our own hands.

Of course it is a blow but if a ranger declares they will die that night anyway and a seer may not be able to be protected. Given that there are no retractables, what do we do? Sacrifice an innocent in all likelihood then provide the wolves with a "no brainer" kill. Obviously individual circumstances apply but IAm speaking from the perspective of someone who panicked into declaring both times and it was less than ideal...

[the guy who be short]

It's better to lynch anybody and have a chance of getting a wolf than to lynch a Seer/Ranger. If they are in a position where they are likely to be lynched, that means they will die anyway. They may as well declare, let the wolves get them at night and let the village try to get a wolf in the day rather than killing the gifted.

Like you, I am talking generally and individual circumstances apply. In any case it will be up to the gifted when they're about to snuff it to decide what to do. No point speculating any further.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Glirdan, about Lommy

She first votes for me. Then she goes on to say that the evidence is feeble ad that she would like to hear my response but is votingon my because I'm the most suspicious when almost 1/3 of the players have not voted yet. Now, I take into account her time zone problem as that is why I myself have to vote now.

If you have to vote, you have to vote. And if you only have one miserable suspect then you might vote for that one, though you would rather not.


I don't want to defend Roa ( ), but I don't see anything suspicious about her first post. There was nothing else to talk about at the time but roleplay, and her points make sense. It's better to state that gifteds have a more difficult task revealing themselves early on Day One than when the situation is at hand and everybody panics.

Originally Posted by Legate

The best we can do is to hope we'll be lucky enough today to pick a stupid Wolf, or that we are lucky enough to pick a random guy and look, he's a wolf! Well, I don't believe in miracles.

Not so pessimistic, my Chieftain! There are more stupid wolves than one might think, and even smart wolves can be caught early.. sometimes.


I would suggest to not be too strict about my companion in wizardry, the Sixth Wizard. It's not nice to lynch somebody on the first Day of his first game, especially when he's no longer there to defend himself.

[the guy who be short]

Originally Posted by Mac

There are more stupid wolves than one might think

Oh really? Perhaps you can tell us more, Mr Mac the Magician... I wouldn't be surprised to find such a man shapeshifting at night!

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by the guy who be short

Oh really? Perhaps you can tell us more, Mr Mac the Magician... I wouldn't be surprised to find such a man shapeshifting at night!

I just don't like it when people bemoan that we aren't going to catch a wolf on Day One except by luck, especially when it's still this early one the Day.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I just don't like it when people bemoan that we aren't going to catch a wolf on Day One except by luck, especially when it's still this early one the Day.

I do wholeheartedly agree with Macalaure here. And in fact there are actual possibilities of catching a wolf on Day1 if the village just a) keeps talking and b) keeps talking sensibly (not only the rolestuff). Many a wolf has met their maker in the end of Day1, with reasoned voting... So let's not downplay our chances. I personally tend to put those people higher in my list of suspicions who say we should just trust our luck or vote randomly on Day1. That's what suits the villains best.

I share the view a few here that Roa was just trying to make a reasonable point at a phase of the game where there was basically nothing else to say and thence will look more suspiciously to those who tried to make a case out of it. The problerm with Roa surely is that she would do that as a villain too...

Glirdy then? He looks so bad again... but I would actually hesitate with lynching him once again on Day1 because he looks suspicious. That's what he manages to do everytime.

Also I happen to know that Lommy had no choice but to vote at that time and I don't envy her situation. If you throw judgements over her voting please tell us whom you would have voted on that hour and with what reasons? That doesn't rule out the possibility that Lommy is a baddie who loves her situatiuon where she can vote "safely" everyDay because of the timezones / netaccess -things.

Okay. I'll check the thread again and try to see if there is anything else to say. I need to attend to a meeting soon but will be back to play actively the last three hours or something.

[Nogrod]

With this little posting I can see Roa, Brinniel, Macalaure and Mith speaking in cool and wise ways. It makes me think better of them but at the same time it nags me whether their honeyed lips conceal a terrible secret.

I thought Rikae a bit suspicious based on her reaction to Roa but find her now sharing my slight suspicions of tgwbs. I also thought tgwbs's suspicion of Lommy a bit lupine (see: four points in a list this early in the game - even though the last one was a joke). I do not claim that Lommy is innocent - to me she is a potential werewolf as all you others - but the way tgwbs made his "case" was somewhat worrying. Even if I myself think that wise wolves just sit back and relax on Day1, there is no rule that no wolf should not actively try to steer the voting on Day1. Of course if there was a case that a fellow (thence Glirdy?) was suspected? That could make sense at least on the early game when it's not standing out so clearly. But that is weak indeed.

I'm somewhat confused about Legate at this moment. He speaks a lot of sense there, a lot of nonsense and then somethings that just ring my alarm-bells...

The sixth wizard surely looks pretty odd too, but as someone already noted, it would be a shame to lynch someone for that reason in his first game Day1.

I'll be back, hopefully with something more constructive to say...

EDIT: X'd with Roa

[the guy who be short]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Something about TGWBS bugs me. He says that Roa's first post is "trying to sound helpful without being helpful", and that phrase immediately jumped out at me. It's become sort of a stock-accusation that's easy to fling around, and doesn't really make sense so early in the game. It seems a little too generalized, and especially bothers me coupled with the suspicion toward Thinlomien for voting early (in my experience, she almost always does, and I think TGWBS knows that).

Firstly, I nowhere stated any suspicious of Thinlomien for voting early. Misrepresentation is a dangerous game to play, Rikae...

As for why I didn't like Roa's post, if I must go into detail to satisfy you, let's go:

She starts off talking about what roles might be in this village, how many wolves, etc. These are all thoughts that the rest of us should already have had and so there is no real point in saying that it's unlikely that there are more the 3 wolves.

She then says we have to be wary of people coming out as gifted because they may just be wolves. She casts doubt on whether we'll have a ranger/seer/hunter at all; I personally can't imagine that the village would be left without the first two at all. She also conveniently says that being uncontested is not proof of being gifted, and that greater proof is required. This strikes me as wolvish; she's striking down any revealed gifted before they even have a chance to reveal themselves.

She says this:

We don't know if we have a ranger though, so if we go a night with out a kill, we cannot assume that a person was protected.

So no kill means that the wolves just decided not to kill anybody? Why not come to the sensible conclusion that no kill = ranger? Why is she trying to make us doubt even this?

So, with that out of the way, we can stop worrying about roles which might not even be here, and just focus on catching wolves.

Which is what we were meant to be doing anyway. That whole post just seems to be filler, so we can see she's said lots of words. The words themselves seem to say little; the little they say, I construe as wolvish.

Originally Posted by Rikae

I also wonder why he wouldn't want a hunter to reveal

The way I see it, a Hunter is more likely to kill an innocent than a wolf. They're also unimportant on the grand scale; a seer can reveal wolves and innocents, a ranger can protect known innocents. A hunter can't really do much.

[Gil-Galad]

i fear i must vote now for i won't make the deadline too...

so today my vote must go to

++Thinlomien

[the guy who be short]

Whom I cross-posted with earlier.

For someone who thinks talking about gifteds is unhelpful, that's aboutall his posts have been. And that, for you people who think Day 1's are useless, is a contradiction.

Very shoddy basis for voting. Both those comments you mentioned (and there were only two) were in response to Mith.

No way helpful? You don't think it's helpful to point out that a wolf could easily hide as a gifted, especially in this game, and that we should be aware of it? Would you rather I wait until Day 3, when someone suddenly says "Wait, I'm a gifted!" and everyone panics and tries to find someone else to vote for?

No. No. And no.

We all know wolves can hide as gifteds, and I've already said I don't think this game is special or magical. I can't see us not having a Seer or Ranger.

Also I'd rather you didn't say anything at all. All that first post has caused is unnecessary speculation; I and others have been forced to reply to it and carry on with this useless role-speculation.

What was I doing? Perhaps you didn't read the full post. I systematically went over the possible roles, established what we could and could not do about them (mostly nothing),

And you don't count that as overspeculation about roles, eh?

[Roa_Aoife]

Oh good, people talked! That makes me so happy.

So, the "Day 1's are useless" "No they aren't" debate has been started. Well, I'll admit that when no one talks on Day 1, very little gets done. However, you can catch people in lies or contradictions, especially if they're vocal. It's been done before, and it can happen again. Day 1 is the most useless when everyone bemoans how useless it is, and nothing gets done.

Originally Posted by TGWBS

I disagree. Talking about gifteds and all that this early is in no way helpful. They can also work things out for themselves. That Roa-post looks like it was trying to be helpful, but wasn't saying much that was helpful to the village.

No way helpful? You don't think it's helpful to point out that a wolf could easily hide as a gifted, especially in this game, and that we should be aware of it? Would you rather I wait until Day 3, when someone suddenly says "Wait, I'm a gifted!" and everyone panics and tries to find someone else to vote for? At such a time, that point would do more harm than good, causing even greater confusion than what typically happens on such days.

Her accusations and vote for Glirdan. Seems to be on very shoddy evidence to me.

She had to go, and it's probable that she won't be on again until after the Day has ended. Voting for the person you find most suspicious isn't suspicious, it's what everyone does. I like that much more than a random vote.

Isn't that what Roa, who she defends, was doing?

What was I doing? Perhaps you didn't read the full post. I systematically went over the possible roles, established what we could and could not do about them (mostly nothing), and ended it by saying:

Originally Posted by Me

So, with that out of the way, we can stop worrying about roles which might not even be here, and just focus on catching wolves.

I garuntee you, if I hadn't brought it up, someone else would have, likely a wolf, and tried to stir conversation and debate about it. I find your means of accusing me through accusing Thin to be extremely shady.

Moving on....

Originally Posted by Gil

so that makes me inclined to think that either Roa and thin are wolves... or our gifted...

Openly marking suspected gifted makes me very nervous indeed. And knowing how quiet Gil tends to be, I have little hope of getting a better read off of him.

And finally....

Originally Posted by Glirdan

And now I am clear. I was actually a litte befuddled by what you had posted which made me leery(sp?) of you. Sorry for jumping down your throat.

I'm not so sure I accept this defense. If you weren't clear, why jump so readily on Rikae's point? Why not ask for clarification instead? You used some pretty dire wording for mere "befuddlement."

I have to vote now, since I won't be back till after the deadline.

++TGWBS

He worries me the most right now, especially since I am wary of anyone who tries to carry on a debate about roles we might not even have, and he keeps doing just that. Not to mention he says:

Originally Posted by TGWBS

Talking about gifteds and all that this early is in no way helpful.

and then

I'd rather a more important gifted (the Hunter isn't that important) declared themselves rather than letting themselves be killed. THat would be a huge blow, losing a gifted by our own hands.

and

It's better to lynch anybody and have a chance of getting a wolf than to lynch a Seer/Ranger. If they are in a position where they are likely to be lynched, that means they will die anyway. They may as well declare, let the wolves get them at night and let the village try to get a wolf in the day rather than killing the gifted.

For someone who thinks talking about gifteds is unhelpful, that's aboutall his posts have been. And that, for you people who think Day 1's are useless, is a contradiction.

Edit: Crossed with Nogrod