Why did Sauron need ring?

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Does anyone here seem to subscribe to the idea that IF Sauron did get the ring from Frodo then he could have somehow increased his might to take over Middle-earth under his rule as many seemed to fear?

Since it doesn't look seem like this quote has been brought before:

Originally Posted by Last debate, RotK

Concerning this thing, my lords, you now all know enough for the understanding of our plight, and of Sauron's. If he regains it, your valour is vain, and his victory will be swift and complete: so complete that none can foresee the end of it while this world lasts.

Originally Posted by Neithan Tol Turambar

Close to half the number of all the Elves and Men of the West who could wield blade died in that war.

Hm, is there some evidence in that regard?

Originally Posted by Raynor

Since it doesn't look seem like this quote has been brought before:
Hm, is there some evidence in that regard?

Taking everything I know about the battles of Middle Earth I feel that I can say so with confidence. But no, not directly. Good Catch.

I think the time of the Lord of the Rings was actually a pretty troublesome time to begin with.

I'm not sure what Tolkien says or even if does say anything about recent history in the third age(famines, wars, rebellions?) but it seems to me everyone has been having problems and no one has been doing to well(examples? the second Khazad Dum...).

The power of the ring, though, is unbroken, so I can understand the fear of not just Sauron, but anyone getting the ring! But Sauron in particular since it's easier to direct fear at him than at the ring, since you would have to fear yourself as well.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Interesting point, Sauron The White.

Sauron poured much of his power into the Ring, but even then he was so powerful that his diminished self could still command a very mighty army from his stronghold in Mordor. Had he the Ring again his power would have been greater, though this might not have affected the strength of his army to any important degree -- they would still have won, regardless.

It would have been checkmate for the Elves, though, because of the Ring's dominance over the Elven rings.

So if the Ring is kept from Sauron, then his enemies have more time to conjure up a crazy, game-saving move -- and isn't that just what happened?

If Sauron gets the Ring, all hope is gone and the end will be a lot sooner.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Looking back over old threads and came across this quotation from Tolkien, supplied by Boromir88.

--

Eomer, sounds like you are looking for an answer that Tolkien wrote in a letter to Mr. Milton Waldman...

Quote:
While he (Sauron) wore it, his power on earth was actually enhanced. But even if he did not wear it, that power existed and was in "rapport" with himself: he was not "diminished." Unless some other seized it and became possessed of it. If that happened, the new possessor could (if sufficiently strong and heroic by nature) challenge Sauron, become master of all that he had learned or done since the making of the One Ring, and so overthrow him and usurp his place. (ENDQUOTE)

So, we have the Ring's power is still "rapport" or "bound" to Sauron. However, if someone comes along (say Gandalf) and is strong enough to challenge him with it (one on one) and is able to beat him that bond would be broken. The Ring's powers would no longer be bound to Sauron, therefor he would be destroyed for good. However, as SpM says, Sauron's works would live on, as the new Ring-Bearer would turn up to be a new dark lord. - (Boro)

--

Interesting and relevant to this thread.

[The Sixth Wizard]

Yeah, Sauron got beaten with the Ring.

... by NUMENOREANS.

So Sauron had some magic metal, so what? That match up is like Super Saiyan 3 Goku versus some guy with boxing gloves.

(link)

Anyway he was going to win in the Third Age because of the decline of Men due to infighting and remnants of his Second Age army beating up on them all the time (see Gladden Fields). As the return of Men from Numenor was relatively recent at the time of the Last Alliance they still wielded enough power to defeat him. I doubt they could have done it twice though, as they only barely won even then. And as I remember Sauron made war too hastily after the fall of Numenor, before his forces were full strength.

[PrinceOfTheHalflings]

I think it's worth remembering that the Last Alliance besieged the forces of Sauron in Mordor for seven years before he himself came out in a last ditch attempt. I doubt that the movie portrayed this at all accurately, as it would appear (from the book) that Sauron let his forces fight virtually to the last orc before he came out. So at this point what could Sauron, even with the Ring, do by himself against a huge force of Elves and Men?

Of course, in taking Sauron down both Elendil and Gil-galad died, but I'd put that down more to Sauron's abilities as a Maiar rather than to any power of the Ring. It seems to me that the Ring was designed to give Sauron power by controlling the other Ringbearers, who were the leading Elves, Dwarves and Men. The Ring was not designed to make Sauron into some kind of unstoppable killing machine. The Ring was partially successful in that it did give Sauron nine mighty wraiths - but it didn't work on Elves or Dwarves.

It might also be worth remembering that at the time of the Last Alliance, Sauron had already died once - in the downfall of Numenor - so that he may not have been as physically powerful as he once was. He may have used much of his strength in creating a new body - which he had done fairly quickly.

All in all - Sauron was defeated and/or killed five times after the creation of the Ring. Four of those times occurred while he was in possession of the Ring.

1. By the Númenóreans and Elves in the War of the Elves and Sauron (S.A 1693-1701). Sauron was forced to retreat after the Battle of the Gwathló, and so lost the war. I wonder why the Númenóreans did not pursue him at this point, when Sauron's armies were routed.

2. By the host of Ar-Pharazôn (S.A. 3255). Sauron surrendered to Ar-Pharazôn when his forces deserted him, but what else could he do? The Númenórean army would have eventually overwhelmed him and Ar-Pharazôn might have ended up with the Ring. Sauron wouldn't have wanted to risk that.

3. The Downfall of Númenor (S.A. 3319). Sauron died as a result of the actions of the Valar and Eru. Since everybody in the vicinity was also dead, Sauron was able to take the Ring back to Middle-Earth, even though he was presumably in some kind of disembodied spirit form. Or maybe he animated what was left of his lifeless body to carry the Ring back ... not pretty but it would get the job done.

4. The Last Alliance of Elves and (Númenórean) Men (S.A. 3434–3441). We know that this force was not as great as the host of Ar-Pharazôn, because Sauron's forces simply deserted him on that earlier occasion. Elendil and Gil-galad physically killed Sauron's body and then Isildur removed the Ring before the spirit of Sauron could claim it. Also, since Sauron had already died just a few years earlier in the Downfall of Númenor, this second death (perhaps before he was back to his "full strength") may have weakened his spirit to the point where it was virtually not functioning. It took Sauron many long years to "get himself together" and for an extended period of time he was not aware of the continued existence of the Ring. Presumably when the Ring lay undiscovered on the floor of the Anduin it was in a dormant or quiescent state. Once Gollum had the Ring, Sauron must have become aware of it; in any case, Sauron would have realised that the continued existence of the Ringwraiths meant that the Nine Rings still "worked" and that therefore the One Ring must be out there "somewhere".

5. Gollum falling into the chasm in Mount Doom, thereby inadvertently destroying the Ring which had just recently come into his possession (along with the previous bearer's finger). (T.A. 3019).