Werewolf XXXII: The Lost Age

[Celuien]

I must say, being fashionably late is rather fun.

Before I made it here, I had been wandering about and just thinking things over. It seemed to me that the secret voting can complicate things for the village. Because there's no way to confirm the outcome of the vote until the following day even if, as has been suggested, we post our votes here on the village notice board. The vampires are, of course, lying since they can't vote. And there might be a couple of legitmate strategic reasons for a villager to post an undecided "vote" early. For example, it seems to me that since the vampires can't vote, they would have to be more vocal in trying to deflect village opinion, so that an early decoy vote might be thrown out to test the waters...much as retractable votes have been used strategically.

In any case, I'll be posting my votes here. It's still the only way the village has to coordinate strategy (at least down the road when there's more to go on), and I agree that some sort of voting record would be useful for analysis later, even if the votes that counted can't necessarily be confirmed.

And if anyone sees a frog hopping about, please let me know. I seem to have lost my poor Ribbits on my way here.

[Kitanna]

I have been reading, but haven't really had a chance to read into what is being said, if you know what I mean. Thus far I have seen little to rise my alarm about anyone, but I do have some concerns about the voting.

Obviously it has been quite the topic already, but I'm a bit worried about this being a double-edged sword. Though the vampires have no vote and will clearly be lying about who they voted for (should SpM's plan be followed), I wonder if others will not lie as well. It seems unlikely, but unless I've read the rules wrong the vampires have a seer, a ranger, and a hunter on their side, correct? All of those folk receive votes, as does the shade. That's four votes that the voter could lie about to the village. Revealing our votes is a good idea, but I'm a bit hesitant given the amount of people who have the potential to lie about it and screw with the village.

I have to run, but I'll be back, hopefully with more solid ideas/facts.

[Rikae]

In answer to Lommy:
Kitanna said (bolding mine)

Originally Posted by Kitanna

unless I've read the rules wrong the vampires have a seer, a ranger, and a hunter on their side, correct? All of those folk receive votes, as does the shade. That's four votes that the voter could lie about to the village. .

So clearly, sha's saying that these gifteds, while on the side of the vampires, have votes (which means they are not vampires themselves).
I still don't know whether to chalk it up to misunderstanding, though.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by xyzzy

Hmm, what are we supposed to take from that? You're sound like you want to look neutral - like a mysterious middleman, who would do very well to take the protection of the Vampires. After all, I'm sure they woludn't mind the additional power... and the vote.

Actually I was trying to sound like a crazy Scottish person. . .

Originally Posted by Mac

Anyway, please, don't be suspicious of Rikae for flirting with me, I'd make me feel guilty.

Don't worry Mac, you do not kill the girl that does the flirting, you kill the person she is flirting with instead of you.

On a more seriouse note, my problem with this thing is that it is hard to get an overwiev of things with so many people here. . . Even when you have been lurking in the dark as I. What I do get is a few people that seems inoccent and non that stands out as evil doers. So genneral confusion would be the best way to describe my state of mind.

EDIT: Cross posted with Legate

[Gil-Galad]

hmmm... is it me or has people been rather confused lately... especially Rikae, where she has been mixing people up...

and yes everything is a trick, there is no magic, only tricks. i must think for a couple minutes to decide who i am going to vote for...

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

hmmm... is it me or has people been rather confused lately... especially Rikae, where she has been mixing people up...

Well it seems pretty many people are confused, which I don't wonder at all, since I'm myself slightly confused about some things...

Roa, you're a láthspell for sure, pointing out all the bad things people (read: I) haven't realised or haven't been thinking about yet... I must say that last post of Roa's made me more comfortable about her.

edit: xed with Rikae

[Gil-Galad]

Kitanna - 1
rikae - 2
Menel - 2
Cel - 3



last time i checked...

xed with lommy

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

Kitanna - 1
rikae - 2
Menel - 2
Cel - 3



last time i checked...

xed with lommy

celuien is in the lead with 3 votes right now...

[Diamond18]

PS - If it helps with your chart making and whatnot, I voted between posts #57 and #58 yesterDay

[Gil-Galad]

alright, found sixths post, now my defense

The person I have decided to vote for is Gil. As I said, for me at least he is very indescernable, and it is Day 1 after all. We may as well have a shot in the dark than take out a potentially valuable innocent like Nogrod or Rikae.

so i take it that you voted for me because i wasn't valuable to the group... ouch... you're breaking my heart here sixth... but what i jsut noticed is that he listed 2 other people... why those two hmmm? Sixth+Rikae+Nogrod= 3, there are 3 vampires on the lose.... do the math, it could be by chance or it could be sixth attempt to hide his comrades, luckily nobody paid any attention to this post... except me...

Hell, I don't know how to act on Day 1. Last game we got a wolf Day 1 and it was wierd after that.

wow... now you say that you don't know why you voted me, just a friendly reminder, Every Werewolf game is different, the worst thing to do is to apply what you found out of people last game and bring it here, just about everyone acts differently in every game. Just because Glirdy(using you as an example buddy) was a wolf last game doesn't mean he is going to be a wolf again this game.


i should get paid for my extra-participation...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

i should get paid for my extra-participation...

I love you Gil!

I may disagree with your points though...

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I love you Gil!

I may disagree with your points though...

i love me too...


i'm mainly stating them as possibilities, might not be true... but it brings sixth into the spotlight for the time being... it will probably be coincedence anyways...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I'm becoming more and more suspicious of you, now.

Why? For questioning you over a slip that might suggest Vampiric tendencies? How absurd.

Originally Posted by Xyzzy

I'm only mildly suspicious of Rikae, but perhaps the seer could decide for us...

I hope that you are not trying to flush out the Seer there, Xyz.

Originally Posted by Noggie

Those of us who were online at the last moments had no clear idea who was getting the votes in the first place as so many votes were undeclared.

Indeed. It might therefore be sensible for us not to leave our (stated) votes right up until the last minute. *Glares at Nogrod* After all, the Vampires cannot actually vote. They can only pretend to, so the strategic value of last minute voting (for innocents) is somewhat lessened.

Originally Posted by Durelin

Except - Sauce, you sound like Nogrod.

Well, at least I haven’t come up with any crazy triangulation theories yet …

Originally Posted by Noggie

Now state me one believable reason why two Vampires would wish to make such an appearance!

Fair point, Noggie. Then again, I’m feeling pretty comfortable with Boro at the moment …

And, despite just having done it myself, I am not too happy with the way you are seeking to make accusations by implication, without naming names.

I will post a new Day 1 "voting record" once Kitanna and Glirdy have had an opportunity to state their votes from yesterDay (if, indeed, they voted).

Btw I rather like the new Gil.

Edit: Cross-posted with the preceding Gil love-in, to which I now appear to have contributed ...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Indeed. It might therefore be sensible for us not to leave our (stated) votes right up until the last minute. *Glares at Nogrod*

One could look at this differently as well. At least I think I acted reasonably by withholding my vote on Celuien - which I was going to make - as she was able to post her RL reasons for her incomplete reasoning on her vote which made me to back off from voting her. Sadly it came only twenty minutes before the deadline and so we were in too much a hurry there anyway.

Who would be confident in voting early, before everyone had have their chances to say their word on issues? The vampires...

We innocents care for us villagers staying alive and thence wish to wait for any information to the end to make our decisions with good grounds (RL excuses are another thing as one will have to leave when one will have to leave).

So please Spm, do focus on things that really matter... I mean it's quite frustrating when people make points on poor grounds (and Roa as well...). Come on and be a little more serious! We do not win this game by making postures of being witty but by actually picking up the wolves / vampires.

Making claims that do not make any sense don't further our cause but hinder it. But the vampires would love to do that and would cewlebrate with anyone who were lured by them.

So think people, think yourselves. Why would someone do something?

After all, the Vampires cannot actually vote. They can only pretend to, so the strategic value of last minute voting (for innocents) is somewhat lessened.

That is true. The strategic value is lessened, to be sure. But aren't you talking here like a Vampire from who's standpoint there is not so much "strategic value" any more? To me as an innocent there is everything to win and lose as we try to get the vampires and prevent the lynching of innocents. That's why any concerned innocent wishes to stay on as long as possible and try to make the difference as I tried yesterDay, unsuccesfully though, with trying to save Celuien...

So voting early is the mark of an innocent? No way Mr. Pan-man! Quite the opposite. You are intelligent enought to see that so why do you try to make the opposite point? Just asking...

And, despite just having done it myself, I am not too happy with the way you are seeking to make accusations by implication, without naming names.

You're just marvellous... "I have done this but it actually makes X look pretty bad..." And to make it even more incredible, you comfortably do not mention the exact thing your sentence refers to... I can't defend anything you imply without first knowing what you mean but that surely looks nice, "Hey he got a point!"

I'm just wishing to see that one...

----

But after all that I must say that Spm is not my main suspicion right now. He's pretty high on my list but anyhow I might wish to see some others lynched before him.

Rikae I'm pretty wary about as well as Gil (so much that I love his new style!). And the newbie-stauts notwithstanding Shasta looks pretty suspicious too...

And all those not stating their votes yesterDay as well... I'll come back to them later as I have time for it...

And Legate... I would not stress his "niceness" as some here have done, but his carefulness. A vampire would love to look agreeable to everyone and the innocents need to do the suspecting and thence being controversial... He is doing the opposite and thence my doubts.

And well, lots of doubts... Durelin, Glirdy, Sleepy... you name it. Maybe, I hope, I have time to make some points on these sneakers later toDay. But now I think Lommy wishes to get a word in...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

"Well, I don't have much time now," said Legate after returning from a long walk he took after he awoke. "I got to leave in about quarter an hour, and probably won't come back. Only to what's debated here now..."

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Obviously it has been quite the topic already, but I'm a bit worried about this being a double-edged sword. Though the vampires have no vote and will clearly be lying about who they voted for (should SpM's plan be followed), I wonder if others will not lie as well. It seems unlikely, but unless I've read the rules wrong the vampires have a seer, a ranger, and a hunter on their side, correct? All of those folk receive votes, as does the shade. That's four votes that the voter could lie about to the village. Revealing our votes is a good idea, but I'm a bit hesitant given the amount of people who have the potential to lie about it and screw with the village.

Well, actually when I saw that comment, I didn't know what it is supposed to mean. Please help me, if you could, to decipher it:
Kitanna, based on how she read the rules, thinks:
-That the vampires have S&R&H
-I actually thought RECEIVE votes meant they can, you know, be voted for. But if I understood you correctly, "receive" here stands here for "are given their own paper to throw into the ballot box"
-So four people can vote and lie at the same time.

I don't understand why to vote for her based on this. I wouldn't say this, even if it is as you say, raises any alarm. It might or might not be a mistake, but if it was intentional, why would she want to say that? I don't get it.

Ten minutes... then I'm leaving, sorry..."

EDIT: x-ed since Nogrod

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Legate was quickly packing his things. "I'm going to explore some further parts of the cave. I already stopped by at the Oracle and gave him my vote. Since you have spoken all very much when I slept and I didn't have chance to think of everything of it seriously to think any of you more guilty than the other, I had to stick with my primary suspicion, which was Six." Legate threw the last of his newly-acquired possessions into the bag and waved. "Don't worry, I'll be back. Just don't kill each other when I'm away. See you tomorrow." With these words, he disappeared to the darkness far from the fire's light.

[Roa_Aoife]

At this point, I'm rather torn between voting Nogrod, Celuien, and Rikae.

Nogrod- for his fabricated case against Rikae. Even if she is evil, it could very easily be a Vamp on Vamp play, especially since there's no truth to it whatsoever. Nogrod could also rest easy knowing that with out his vote, she wouldn't be in trouble.

Celuien and Rikae - both for falling into Eomer's trap, and extra to Celuien for discrediting the plan while agreeing to it at the same time.

Legate is also irking me a bit, but I can't come up with a logical reason why. It may be the "too nice" thing that was previously mentioned, but until I can put my finger on it, I'll leave it be, and just watch him more closely. (If I don't get lost with the incharacterness of his posting.

I've decided to ease my suspicion of Gil, but only for now- it's not the first time he's been innocent with, at best, highly confusing cases.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Roa, you're a láthspell for sure, pointing out all the bad things people (read: I) haven't realised or haven't been thinking about yet...

Seeing as when I do a search on that word I get entries for Gandalf, I'll happily take that as a compliment.

Edit: Cross posted with the last three.

[Nogrod]

First those I have some ideas already.

I think I'm trusting Boro and Mac enough toDay. They have both spoken wisely and contributed to our cause. They are both men cabable of doing the very same thing were they villains but with these grounds ("a vampire might have done that as well") I'm not ready to suspect them more than necessary toDay.

Spm's early self-defence got me a bit worried but that's no reason to lynch him on Day1 either. Too risky. And he said he'll be back toDay so maybe we can hear more from him.

Rikae I'm in doubt. When I got to sleep the last time I thought that I would announce openly not to vote for her toDay as she's too valuable as an innocent to us. But as I've read more toDay after that I must say that I'm not declining the possibility of voting her.

Celuien's voting-decision really bothers me. She might be the one I'll go for.

I said yesterday (RL) that I liked the way Gil plays now but he has done a lot to make me change my mind after that...

Sleepy I can't vote as there are RL reasons for his little appearance.

A few things with Roa to follow...

Edit: X'd from Legate on...

[Thinlómien]

I should be leaving soon and I don't know who to vote... probably Cel or Menel. They seem the most suspicious this far. Anyway, I'm now to check through their posts.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

heh I forgot to put my vote in the proper form to avoid confusion. (yes I have sent it as well)

++Menel

[Nogrod]

Roa's insistence on my suspiciousness is no news. She does it always. And like the last game she's barking at the wrong tree again. What I'm a bit worried about is that she's made even worse case on me now than she did the last time (when she was wrong as well - and an innocent being wrong!).

But as she clearly is an intelligent woman, I'm getting some doubts to my mind from her insistence yet again. An innocent looks for the best of the village, not to try and get someone lynched just because she would like to get that someone lynched.

The funny point about Roa's case this far is the following. She accuses me of lying. We'll here's the stuff:

Nogrod's blatant lying about Rikae's "blatant lying"

I would like to say, that I might accuse Roa of blatant lying about myself lying blatantly about Rikae's blatant lying... and I'm pretty convinced that I'm more to the target here than she is (well, I know it, but anyhow).

But yes. I'm not going to pursue this any further toDay. If I'm here toMorrow I might exchange a few comments with Roa then. I have better candidates toDay.

[The Sixth Wizard]

Six? I don't see why you think it isn't a good idea. Unless you want to bluff, which as I said I think an innocent villager has no need to, you shouldn't worry about it. After all, as best "voting list" as we can get is, I think, only for the good of the village. I don't see any disadvantage there.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I think accusations reveal the character of a person, and I find accusations to be about as helpful as anything (besides blind luck) on Day 1. I find accusations to be a good thing, so I think it's awkward Shastani, you are telling us to not do it.

I don't have much experience in these games, but is this what players often do on Day 1? It happened in the Unknown Enemies. . . I suppose it is a good way to get the game going, and mystery among the villagers might help the Vampires.

Originally Posted by Durelin

So here is where the fools have gathered? How lovely that there are so many of you in one place. You can be as stupid as you'd like, but I have a problem with people always adding their own crap to my pile.

In other words - stay away from me, and I won't mistake you for a Vampire.

Oh, yeah...you Vampires? Yeah, you. You listen. I bet you think you have it easy. And maybe you're right - you may not get any say in who we take out, but you know as well as I do that we innocents excel at slitting our own throats... *glances at Brinniel* or wrists.... But you know what? You're no different from them, even with your silly powers.

So go slaughter some goats and leave me the hell alone.

Was this hostility part of your character, or did you actually MEAN it?