Did JRRT encourage new ME stories?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

Music - We know that JRRT enjoyed Swann's music to a number of his poems. I assume that more modern ones could be considered variations in taste, though I have my doubts about the metal scene which used Tolkienish ideas as a basis for some pieces.

I guess the Prof wouldn't be much happy with the black-metal-type bands, although, who knows, he might be content and say: "See? That's what I meant Melkor played at the Music." But seriously, I think even the metal bands, if they hold to the canon - like Blind Guardian, for example - should be ok with that. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't. However, the bands who only include the words "Sauron, Saurooon, Mordor, Mordooor" in one of their songs without any logical connection to the rest of it, should be hardly even thought of.

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

But what about the high quality fan fiction/RPGs that fill the empty spaces in Tolkien's spirit? Non-canonical stories could be rejected, but would the good ones still be valid?

Good ones? Surely. For example your "Time", without questions

But all in all, the trouble is that peoples' opinions are different from person to person, look even how some people regard the Hobbit, and if there were suddenly fifty thousand fan fictions, which some would glorify and some would burn. Example: I like Star Wars films, but I "don't believe" or how should I call that, the expanded universe the books and video games created. For me, having another Sith Lord or even greater threat after the death of the Emperor is completely devalving the main plot. But there are many many people who read it and are all happy when a book describing what happened between the scene 4 and 5 in Episode II appears.

The main point is, when you have one creator, the work is consistent. With several more people, you have the "broken light", and one likes green, one likes yellow and one likes blue. It may be good or may not. But if all of it were cannonized, I would for example like the "green", but not "yellow", and I'd find hard to accept that in my Middle-Earth there actually are Entwives living in the Shire, just because Arry Otter wrote a fanfic on it.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Yes, Davem is right. Tolkien approved of artistic and musical adaptations and certain plays, but never included stories in print.

On the other hand, I read something interesting a few weeks ago. I believe it was in one of the early society publications (not the main Tolkien society). (Those early fan publications include some interviews with JRRT, articles by certain members of the Tolkien family, etc....tidbits of information not available anywhere else.) One of the other members of Tolkien's family actually did a fanfiction tale based on either Hobbit or LotR. Possibly a teenage son, but don't hold me to that identity. Of course, it wasn't called "fanfiction". Tolkien incidentally said he was delighted with it.

But the real question to me is this. If the Legendarium constitutes a myth rather than mere contemporary novels/poems, then won't we reach a point perhaps years down the road where others try their hand with it? Even now, CT's work with Hurin suggests this. When is an editor more than an editor....perhaps, when he makes a decision to publish a stand-alone story where none existed before, even if leaning heavily on the author's own words.

For the Legendarium to be "successful" on Tolkien's own terms of creating a myth, then don't others have to read it and be inspired to retell it in their own way. Sometime in the misty past, individuals came up with the ideas to form the germ of the Arthurian tales, but those tales have now been told and retold in a hundred different ways. The same holds true for the Illiad and Odyssey. In an age of printed books and computers, we are unlikely to "forget" the orginal creation by Tolkien. Still, five hundred years from now, will we be better off with only the original tales frozen in ice or with a continuing chain of creativity? There will be drek, just as exists for the Arthurian legends but won't the best ultimately come to the surface?

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Estelyn

But what about the high quality fan fiction/RPGs that fill the empty spaces in Tolkien's spirit? Non-canonical stories could be rejected, but would the good ones still be valid?

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hickli

He was violently opposed. When one reader wrote him with an outline of a proposed fanfic 'sequel' to Lord of the Rings, he called him a "young ***" and referred the matter to Allen & Unwin's lawyers. Tolkien very clearly felt that he was the only qualified 'historian' of Middle-earth.

Originally Posted by Child

One of the other members of Tolkien's family actually did a fanfiction tale based on either Hobbit or LotR. Possibly a teenage son, but don't hold me to that identity. Of course, it wasn't called "fanfiction". Tolkien incidentally said he was delighted with it.

I think I would (rather unqualifiedly) say that the difference between the two is the same difference that lies between 'sub-creation' and 'creation'. The one tries explore the possibilities within the given limitations, while the other tries to impose new things upon the whole. Of course J.R.R. Tolkien was opposed to the latter, especially when it concerned his own work. What he would have thought of works with the intention of sub-creation, and of high quality, is debatable I guess.

Originally Posted by davem

Note - he specifies 'paint, music, & drama' - not new tales.

But he also doesn't mention sculpture. Does that mean he was opposed to it? I would doubt that.

Originally Posted by the letter quoted by davem

The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and yet leave scope for other minds and hands, wielding paint and music and drama.

I think the important matter here is not the specification of paint, music and drama, but the question what this "scope" includes and what it excludes.


(sorry for excessive quoting)

[davem]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

But he also doesn't mention sculpture. Does that mean he was opposed to it? I would doubt that.I think the important matter here is not the specification of paint, music and drama, but the question what this "scope" includes and what it excludes.

I think Tolkien is pretty clear - he doesn't object to depictions in other media of what he's created. He's careful to exclude other minds & hands adding to the stories. In fact, the only person he's ever authorised to add to or alter his work is Christopher. Raynor Unwin even stated in an interview that 'One did not edit Tolkien' - or words to that effect.

And I would also add that in that letter Tolkien is attempting to 'sell himself' to a potential publisher, & perhaps is being overly careful not to come across as too 'precious' regarding his work.

[narfforc]

I do not wish to lower the standard of this wonderful thread, I have kept up with the various statements and find it enthralling. However all I can say is I wish he had said ' In written form also', I have been ardent in my believe that someone if not some others could write a sequel within canonicity. If my poor skill as a wordsmith was somewhat greater I am sure that I could work with another to bring forth a credible storyline. I have said before on this site that I have already done this thing, however it was for myself and some very close friends, I do not believe I made any mistakes although you would be asked to make some great leaps of faith, but they wouldn't be absurd. I am not sure of this new story, I am positive especially if the person I was working alongside had been a Christopher Tolkien, another who I feel could do this thing is the very learned Alex Lewis, maybe working with Tom Shippey and Charles Noad, what I am trying to say is that it would not be impossible to write a very good story, as long as the reader would not approach the finished result with any bias against it on the basis of negativity due to the idea that Middle-Earth is sancrosanct, of course the world would be split on this one.


Niggle wants some help to finish...............................something?

.

[The 1,000 Reader]

You could capitalize your name.

[narfforc]

My name starts with an invisible and silent A, a capital one .


.