Christopher Tolkien to finish lost Middle Earth novel

[Maédhros]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I was partly referring to prose style. The alternative you provided I found indigestible, even as a devotee of the King James Bible - there are only so many "hithers" one passage can take....

I guess that you are not a fan of Tolkien's Lost Tales.
There is a difference in the prose style of the Later Tuor from 1951 and the story in The Fall of Gondolin from 1916-17. (Tuor and the Exiles of Gondolin )
From Unfinished Tales: Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin

The tale of Tuor and the Exiles of Gondolin (as "The Fall of Gondolin" is entitled in the early MSS) remained untouched for many years, though my father at some stage, probably between 1926 and 1930, wrote a brief, compressed version of the story to stand as part of The Silmarillion (a title which, incidentally, first appeared in his letter to The Observer of 20 February 1938); and this was changed subsequently to bring it into harmony with altered conceptions in other parts of the book. Much later he began work on an entirely refashioned account, entitled "Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin." It seems very likely that this was written in 1951, when The Lord of the Rings was finished but its publication doubtful. Deeply changed in style and bearings, yet retaining many of the essentials of the story written in his youth, "Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin" would have given in fine detail the which legend that constitutes the brief 23rd chapter of the published Silmarillion, but, grievously, he went no further than the coming of Tuor and Voronwë to the last gate and Tuor's sight of Gondolin across the plain of Tumladen. To his reasons for abandoning it there is no clue.

It is thus the remarkable fact that the only full account that my father ever wrote of the story of Tuor's sojourn in Gondolin, his union with Idril Celebrindal, the birth of Eärendil, the treachery of Maeglin, the sack of the city, and the escape of the fugitives – a story that was a central element in his imagination of the First Age – was the narrative composed in his youth. There is no question, however, that that (most remarkable) narrative is not suitable for inclusion in this book. It is written in the extreme archaistic style that my father employed at that time, and it inevitably embodies conceptions out of keeping with the world of The Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion in its published form. It belongs with the rest of the earliest phase of the mythology, "the Book of Lost Tales": itself a very substantial work, of the utmost interest to one concerned with the origins of Middle-earth, but requiring to be presented in a lengthy and complex study if at all.

The problem of putting the two texts together as CT points out is that the earlier version has an archaic style, with respect to the Later Tuor account in Unfinished Tales. The point is that: Is the composition of a full "readable" text of the Tale of Tuor and his coming to Gondolin up to the escape of the fugitives, to be published as a separte work, such as the CoH, regardless with more editorial alterations because of the archaic elements in the earlier tale (and to have a single style prose style of Later Tuor), would that not better than not at all? How many people will not ever know of this story, such as the CoH, if CT had not published it this year? To me, the positives far outweight the negatives, even though this is a moot point because CT probably will never do it.

[davem]

http://www.economist.com/displaystor..._JDPPPSD&ppv=1

[davem]

http://www.tehelka.com/story_main30....07The_road.asp

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Maédhros

I guess that you are not a fan of Tolkien's Lost Tales.
There is a difference in the prose style of the Later Tuor from 1951 and the story in The Fall of Gondolin from 1916-17. (Tuor and the Exiles of Gondolin )
From Unfinished Tales: Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin

I am afraid that I was defeated by the Lost Tales when I bought them when they were first released in paperback - my first four volumes of HOME are from the first paperback release, the rest from the 2002 reissue... it perhaps wasn't the best time since I started my degree with a 60 volume reading list and the realisation that outside linguistics class Tolkien was not approved of. I do hope to have another go but while I have read most of most of the later volumes I haven't quite plucked up the courage to reopen Lost Tales.

I adore UT though - my favourite volume of Tolkien on the whole.

Don't get me wrong, I am so glad that HoME has made so much available, and the prospect of finding out more about Idril (surely Tolkien's most admirable female character ) is a big incentive to have another go with LT, but I have to say I think CT's judgement was sound.

Not a fan hmm.... I cannot answer accurately yes or no . Many of the phrases are lovely in isolation but on top of each other .... well it is the difference between a long G&T and swigging Gordon's from the bottle a la Hogarth - one is a delightful prospect the other horrific - so does that make me a fan of gin or not?

[Maédhros]

Don't get me wrong, I am so glad that HoME has made so much available, and the prospect of finding out more about Idril (surely Tolkien's most admirable female character ) is a big incentive to have another go with LT, but I have to say I think CT's judgement was sound.

Not a fan hmm.... I cannot answer accurately yes or no . Many of the phrases are lovely in isolation but on top of each other .... well it is the difference between a long G&T and swigging Gordon's from the bottle a la Hogarth - one is a delightful prospect the other horrific - so does that make me a fan of gin or not?

I was not really a fan of the styles of those stories either, but the Cottage of Lost Play really won me over, and since has become my favorite Tolkien story of them all. I guess it has something of a je ne sais quoi quality. The poetry in Bolt I just find it amazing.
You should give it another try. I mean for someone like me, whose English is not his first language, can do it. I'm sure that it would be way easier for you.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Maédhros

I was not really a fan of the styles of those stories either, but the Cottage of Lost Play really won me over, and since has become my favorite Tolkien story of them all. I guess it has something of a je ne sais quoi quality. The poetry in Bolt I just find it amazing.
You should give it another try. I mean for someone like me, whose English is not his first language, can do it. I'm sure that it would be way easier for you.

I have a soft spot for BoLT. Strikes me that's another all but complete work which CT could put out without too much editorial intervention - along with colour plates & illuminated lettering - like one of those Edwardian fairy story collections.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by davem

I have a soft spot for BoLT. Strikes me that's another all but complete work which CT could put out without too much editorial intervention - along with colour plates & illuminated lettering - like one of those Edwardian fairy story collections.

My broken leg having kept me from more adventurous activities, I've been reading a lot lately, and having finished The Children of Húrin, I've been rereading the HoME, in particular the "Lost Tales", so I'm particularly curious to hear how you would put out a "complete work without too much editorial intervention".

I suppose, of course, that "too much" is a subjective term, and means different things, but there are some very major difficulties, as I see it, to putting out such a book.

First, and foremost, is that the thing isn't complete. As Christopher Tolkien says in the commentary parts, the "Lost Tales" are missing a chunk of their middle (Gilfanon's Tale, or the history from the crossing of the Helcaraxë till the Battle of Unnumbered Tears), and the end. The whole Tale of Eärendel is missing.

Similarly, the "Links" or the Eriol parts of the "Lost Tales" are incomplete. In the "Cottage of Lost Play" and in the "Links" we have a buildup towards his receiving limpë, and there is a narrative-- but it is never resolved. Would you then publish a tale that is unresolved?

There are also several matters of internal cohesion to be resolved, such as the consistency of names (the text in the HoME is already one that Christopher Tolkien has made more consistent), or things such as the Elf/Man nature of Beren, and other things of this nature. Personally, I would say these matters are easily dealt with, and would truly require a minimum of editorial intervention, but the much larger issue of an incomplete tale is rather serious.

[Aiwendil]

I have a soft spot for BoLT. Strikes me that's another all but complete work which CT could put out without too much editorial intervention - along with colour plates & illuminated lettering - like one of those Edwardian fairy story collections.

I'm rather fond of the Lost Tales as well, though as Formendacil quite correctly points out, they are quite incomplete. Personally, I think that one of the greatest tragedies arising from Tolkien's tendency to leave things unfinished is the fact that he never wrote the Tale of Earendel (or Tales, as it was supposed to consist of seven or so sections, making it almost as long again as the whole work up to that point). 'Earendil' is of course the only Great Tale that was never told in long form.

I have sometimes been tempted to try and write a 'Tale of Earendil' myself, though I hesitate even to mention it, considering Davem's views on 'other stories' . . .

[davem]

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/featu....asp?ID=188030

And the Observer would like to apologise for its mistake last week:

"We repeated a picture agency error in a caption on a photograph of JRR Tolkein which accompanied our review of The Children of Hurin (Books, last week). We said the picture dated from 1999, but Tolkein died in 1973. The picture was taken in 1971."

Always nice when a newspaper admits their mistakes.....now about 'Tolkein'....

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comme...073557,00.html

EDIT

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ide...he_beginning_/

Interesting one - what shall we make of the 'Blakean' connection?