Beardless

[Anáwiel]

In a note written in December 1972 or later, and among the last writings of my father's on the subject of Middle-earth, there is a discussion of the Elvish strain in Men, as to its being observable in the beardlessness of those who were so descended (it was a characteristic of all Elves to be beardless); and it is here noted in connection with the princely house of Dol Amroth that "this line had a special Elvish strain, according to its own legends" (with a reference to the speeches between Legolas and Imrahil in The Return of the King V 9, cited above).

My father first wrote here (emending it to the text given at the time of writing): 'But we have to go on, and we have to cross the mountains here or go back. The passes further south are too far away, and were all guarded years ago - they lead straight into the country of the [Beardless Men Mani Aroman >] Horsemen.' In the rewritten passage, the reference to the passes further south is removed, but it reappears a little later: 'further south the passes are held' (cf. FR p. 300: Further south there are no passes, till one comes to the Gap of Rohan').

The Stoors were broader, heavier in build, and had less hair on their feet and more on their chins, and preferred flat lands and riversides. [Added: Their feet and hands were large.] The Harfoots were browner of skin, smaller and shorter, and they were beardless and bootless; they preferred highlands and hill-sides. [Added: Their hands and feet were neat and nimble.] The Fallohides were fairer of skin and often of hair, and were taller than the others; they were lovers of trees and woodlands. [Added: All Hobbits were 'good shots' with stone, sling or bow, but the Fallohides were the surest on the mark.] The Stoors [> Harfoots] had much to do with Dwarves in ancient times, and long lived in the foothills of the Misty Mountains.

These are the only three quotes, containing the word beardless, I found in my e-books, all from HoME. No mentioning of beardless Númenoreans. In fact, Beregond of Gondor (and if I am not mistaken, the Númenoreans are the ancestors of the Men of Gondor), mentions to Pippin that the hobbit has seen more than the 'greybeards' of his nation.
But as Tolkien contradicts himself often, as we see in the first quote, it may cetrainly be, that he mentioned somewhere Men without beard.

[Morwen]

QUOTE] Quote:
The Stoors were broader, heavier in build, and had less hair on their feet and more on their chins, and preferred flat lands and riversides. [Added: Their feet and hands were large.] The Harfoots were browner of skin, smaller and shorter, and they were beardless and bootless; they preferred highlands and hill-sides. [Added: Their hands and feet were neat and nimble.] The Fallohides were fairer of skin and often of hair, and were taller than the others; they were lovers of trees and woodlands. [Added: All Hobbits were 'good shots' with stone, sling or bow, but the Fallohides were the surest on the mark.] The Stoors [> Harfoots] had much to do with Dwarves in ancient times, and long lived in the foothills of the Misty Mountains.

[/QUOTE] Ah, the bearded Stoors. It is said of the hobbits of the Eastfarthing that they were "Stoors in a large part of their blood, as indeed was shown by the don that many grew on their chines." By contrast "(n)o Harfoot or Fallohide had any trace of a beard". (LotR, Prologue:Concerning Hobbits)
So to amend my earlier statement hobbits, with the exception of those with Stoor ancestry, are beardless.

Quote:
In a note written in December 1972 or later, and among the last writings of my father's on the subject of Middle-earth, there is a discussion of the Elvish strain in Men, as to its being observable in the beardlessness of those who were so descended (it was a characteristic of all Elves to be beardless); and it is here noted in connection with the princely house of Dol Amroth that "this line had a special Elvish strain, according to its own legends" (with a reference to the speeches between Legolas and Imrahil in The Return of the King V 9, cited above).

So, Men with elven ancestry are beardless; those with strictly human ancestry are not (what volume of HoME is the above quote from by the way?)

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Anáwiel

These are the only three quotes, containing the word beardless, I found in my e-books, all from HoME. No mentioning of beardless Númenoreans. In fact, Beregond of Gondor (and if I am not mistaken, the Númenoreans are the ancestors of the Men of Gondor), mentions to Pippin that the hobbit has seen more than the 'greybeards' of his nation.
But as Tolkien contradicts himself often, as we see in the first quote, it may cetrainly be, that he mentioned somewhere Men without beard.

I didn't get the second quote, really. Was it saying that the men of Rohan were beardless? That's kind of confusing, and we know Theoden had a beard.

"Greybeards" are probably the common folk of Gondor, most likely not the ones with Numenorean blood...

thank you for the quotes! Much appreciated...it's a confusing subject...

[Formendacil]

The quote in question isn't from the HoME, but from Unfinished Tales, unless I am vastly mistaken. From the section on Nimrodel in "The Tale of Galadriel and Celeborn", possibly a footnote. (All that is a guess... I could be way off.)

However, I am quite certain that I am NOT way off when I say that nowhere ever printed or referred to in print, did Tolkien EVER write anything saying that Númenoreans were unbearded. Even his statement on the Elves is contradictory with the image of Elves shown elsewhere, as already demonstrated by Thranduil and Círdan.

[Morwen]

Where does it say that Thranduil is bearded? I've been looking through TH for the reference but so far nothing.

[Anáwiel]

The passes further south are too far away, and were all guarded years ago - they lead straight into the country of the [Beardless Men Mani Aroman >] Horsemen.

As far as I was able to understand it, the quote states that the Rohirrim are beardless. This in my opinion doesn't mean that the men were unable to grow beards but rather that the fashion was to be clean-shaven. At least I interpret it this way.

Concerning the other quote, I think greybeards is just another name for the elders of Gondor and if they are referred to as "greybeards", it is somehow logic to me that they have beards.

The subject is really confusing (and very interesting too). Tolkien often contradicts himself. I think I'll search my e-books again, this time to see how many bearded characters I find, this subject really arose my interest

All quotes are from HoME, I'll check later in which volumes I found them, when I get home

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Anáwiel

The subject is really confusing (and very interesting too). Tolkien often contradicts himself. I think I'll search my e-books again, this time to see how many bearded characters I find, this subject really arose my interest

Tell me about it, I've been trying to find answers to this question for a long time. Let us know the results on your search!

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Anáwiel

Concerning the other quote, I think greybeards is just another name for the elders of Gondor and if they are referred to as "greybeards", it is somehow logic to me that they have beards.

And concerning this, I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was stating that the "greybeards" Beregond referred to could be the one's with no rich Numenorean blood- the common folk of Gondor. As far as I know, the only 3 that were known to be actual decendants of Numenor were Denethor, Boromir, and Faramir. Could be wrong.

[MatthewM]

Any more opinions? This is a topic highly up for opinion.

Here's a question- do you think that when Tolkien describes a character as "fair of face", that this refers to beardlessness?

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Anáwiel

All quotes are from HoME, I'll check later in which volumes I found them, when I get home

BTW, any luck finding which volumes they were quoted from?

[Morwen]

Originally Posted by MatthewM

Any more opinions? This is a topic highly up for opinion.

Here's a question- do you think that when Tolkien describes a character as "fair of face", that this refers to beardlessness?

I don't know that the phrase is meant to indicate that a character so described is beardless. Cirdan for example is a bearded elf. All elves are supposed to be "fair of face". Ergo, Cirdan is bearded and good looking. Theoden is described as bearded ("His beard was like snow upon his knees" - TT, The King of the Golden Hall ) and Tolkien's description of the dead Theoden is as follows:

The light of the torches shimmered in his white hair like sun in the spray of a fountain, but his face was fair and young, save that a peace lay on it beyond the reach of youth.

RotK, The Houses of Healing

Now unless Theoden had shaved before going into battle, he presumably is still bearded at the time of the above description.

So it is possible to be bearded and fair of face.

On the other hand you have hobbits, who are generally beardless, apart from the Stoors who have facial hair. But hobbits are said to have "good natured" rather than beautiful faces.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Morwen

Where does it say that Thranduil is bearded? I've been looking through TH for the reference but so far nothing.

After my own look-through... I'm embarassingly forced to conclude likewise. I can only conclude that I was thinking of the fact that Thranduil was blond, and was somehow conflating it with the idea that he was bearded--which is a reasonable mix-up, since blondness and beardedness would both contradict normally-held statements about Elves (barring the Vanyar).

However... despite the fact that I can't find any evidence... I STILL want to say that Thranduil was bearded... but I have no evidence and am reasonably forced to conclude that I am mistaken on that point.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

...since blondness and beardedness would both contradict normally-held statements about Elves (barring the Vanyar).

Normally-held, but mistaken. Surely after twenty years people are aware that Appendix F was garbled, and that the 'dark-haired' description there was intended to refer to the Noldor alone, not all the Eldar?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hickli

Normally-held, but mistaken. Surely after twenty years people are aware that Appendix F was garbled, and that the 'dark-haired' description there was intended to refer to the Noldor alone, not all the Eldar?

You are correct that it is garbled, and applies specifically to the Noldor, and not all the Eldar, but since Thranduil is a Sinda, and thus of the Teleri, blond is not a hair colour that would be associated with them. Golden hair is associated with the Vanyar, but the Teleri are like the Noldor in being primarily dark-haired, and I quote:

Originally Posted by Tolkien, in "Quendi and Eldar", HoME XI,

On the origin of this name [Sindar] see Note 11. The Loremasters also supposed that reference was made to the hair of the Sindar. Elwë himself had indeed long and beautiful hair of silver hue, but this does not seem to have been a common feature of the Sindar, though it was found among them occasionally, especially in the nearer or remoter kin of Elwë (as in the case of Círdan). In general, the Sindar appear to have very closely resembled the Exiles [Noldor], being dark-haired, strong and tall, but lithe. Indeed, they could hardly be told apart except by their eyes; for the eyes of all the Elves that had dwelt in Aman impressed those of Middle-earth by their piercing brightness.

As a Telerin Elf generally, and as a Sindarin Elf specifically, I stand by saying that a blond-haired Thranduil would have been atypical for his race, though provision is also made earlier in the same text (in discussing the Noldor) to leave a little leeway for intermarriage with the Vanyar in days before or during the Great March.