WW XXXIII - Other Minds and Hands

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Mac

But I will wait with my vote until Brinniel had a chance to speak.

I am not sure that she's coming back. If she does, and depending on what she says, I shall retract.

++Brinniel

And, if Brinniel is a Wolf, I shall be looking very closely at Anguirel toMorrow, given that he 'safely' voted for her yesterDay, but has declined to do so toDay.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I doubt she'll be back in time.

Ack! You're right.

In that case, I fear there is nothing else left for me to do:

++Brinniel


May swift death find you, if you lead us wrong, Rune!

[Kath]

Very well:

-- VOLO

++ BRINNIEL

I see no point in not trusting Rune. If he is lying to us Brinniel's lynch will prove it and we can kill him tomorrow, along with someone else as his guilt will be proven. If he is telling the truth then either a wolf or a cobbler will be killed, so long as we are sure that there are no more positive special roles.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I will feel like such an *** if Brinn turns out to be on our side, íf I had said who I had spied on earlier at least she would have had a chance to talk. . . .

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

anyways

++Brinniel


I wonder how people would have reacted if I had voted for Mac just now. . .

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Rune

I will feel like such an *** if Brinn turns out to be on our side, íf I had said who I had spied on earlier at least she would have had a chance to talk. . . .

That somehow makes me feel better about you, and this endeavour.

Psst, Kath, you have to retract your earlier vote for Volo.

Diamond: ++Mac (Mac-1)
Volo: ++Rune (Mac-1, Rune-1)
Shasta: ++Rune (Mac-1, Rune-2)
Gil: ++Mac (Mac-2, Rune-2)
Kath: ++Volo (Mac-2, Rune-2, Volo-1)
Brinniel: ++Gil (Mac-2, Rune-2, Volo-1, Gil-1)
Aganzir: ++Brinniel (Mac-2, Rune-2, Volo-1, Gil-1, Brinniel-1)
Anguirel: ++Diamond (Mac-2, Rune-2, Volo-1, Gil-1, Brinniel-1, Diamond-1)
Volo: --Rune, ++Brinniel (Mac-2, Rune-2, Volo-1, Gil-1, Brinniel-2, Diamond-1)
Legate: ++Brinniel (Mac-2, Rune-1, Volo-1, Gil-1, Brinniel-3, Diamond-1)
SpM: ++Brinniel (Mac-2, Rune-1, Volo-1, Gil-1, Brinniel-4, Diamond-1)
Mac: ++Brinniel (Mac-2, Rune-1, Volo-1, Gil-1, Brinniel-5, Diamond-1)
Kath: --Volo, ++Brinniel (Mac-2, Rune-1, Volo-1, Gil-1, Brinniel-6, Diamond-1)

[The Saucepan Man]

Correction (to tkae account fo Kath's retraction and Rune's vote):

Diamond: ++Mac (Mac-1)
Volo: ++Rune (Mac-1, Rune-1)
Shasta: ++Rune (Mac-1, Rune-2)
Gil: ++Mac (Mac-2, Rune-2)
Kath: ++Volo (Mac-2, Rune-2, Volo-1)
Brinniel: ++Gil (Mac-2, Rune-2, Volo-1, Gil-1)
Aganzir: ++Brinniel (Mac-2, Rune-2, Volo-1, Gil-1, Brinniel-1)
Anguirel: ++Diamond (Mac-2, Rune-2, Volo-1, Gil-1, Brinniel-1, Diamond-1)
Volo: --Rune, ++Brinniel (Mac-2, Rune-2, Volo-1, Gil-1, Brinniel-2, Diamond-1)
Legate: ++Brinniel (Mac-2, Rune-1, Volo-1, Gil-1, Brinniel-3, Diamond-1)
SpM: ++Brinniel (Mac-2, Rune-1, Volo-1, Gil-1, Brinniel-4, Diamond-1)
Mac: ++Brinniel (Mac-2, Rune-1, Volo-1, Gil-1, Brinniel-5, Diamond-1)
Kath: --Volo, ++Brinniel (Mac-2, Rune-1, Gil-1, Brinniel-6, Diamond-1)
Rune: ++Brinniel (Mac-2, Rune-1, Gil-1, Brinniel-7, Diamond-1)

[Anguirel]

Oh for Eru's sake Sauce, put a sock in the Inquisition routine. I voted before everyone apparently decided that Brinniel was the answer to all their troubles. I'm quite happy to see her die to. I'd even change my vote, but I'm keeping it back in case of more unknown unknowns...and an Elf-lord does not kow-tow to the herd instinct.

Bar foul play, Volo must be telling the truth. That role is a brilliant idea, shame it probably can't be recycled for another game. As for Rune, the tragi-comic circumstances stuff about Lommy convinces me.

Wonder if our wolves are Sauce, Kath, Brinniel and Diamond. Would make a certain amount of sense...

[Rikae]

Well, clearly a more realistic sound effect was needed for Deagol's choking and gurgling while being strangled; and who better to produce it than the Wacky Foley Artist.

Aganzir pinned Brinniel down while Volo attempted to throttle her with a striped hobbit-scarf. Brinniel gagged and sputtered...writhed and fought...and then her face began to change...her form twisted and contorted, with all sorts of interesting popping and squeaking sounds, and Gollum and Smeagol shrank back in horror from the creature ...a disgusting, slavering, rabid, mutant warg, complete with pushed-in nose and mangy reddish fur. The Downers gasped and recoiled...all but Rune, who drew a gun (when in America...) and fired two silver bullets into the diabolical beast's forehead.

The Downers had finally bagged a wolf.

Day 3 is over. Night 4 has begun. You know the drill...

The Cast and Crew

Six feet under:

Rikae (Mod) – CG Animator, Rendered and Lighted on Night1
The Sixth Wizard (Ordo) – Protester against Dwarven Comic Relief, Buried in Skulls on Day1
Mithalwen (Ordo) Galadriel– Illuminated...(Electrocuted) on Night2
Boromir88 (Ordo)- Sir Boromir, playing Denethor- Set a record for sprinting while on fire on Day2
Durelin (Ordo)- Special Effects Pyrotechnician-Burst over Bywater on Night3
Thinlómien (Ranger/Assassin)- Non-Winged Balrog-Took a little tumble on Night3
Brinniel (Wolf)-Wacky Foley Artist – Made a lot of noise on Day3

Six feet above

Volo - Gollum
Legate of Amon Lanc - Sound Master/Saruman
Macalaure - The 7th orc in the 3rd row
Shastanis Althreduin - Legolas' stunt double
The Saucepan Man- Set Catering Manager
Xyzzy - Young Fanboy
Anguirel- Celeborn
Kath - Make-up Artist
Gil-Galad - Zombie-Gil-Galad
Aganzir - Smeagol
Rune -Tolkien geek who is estatic about being an Elf extra
Diamond18 - Lady in charge of Wigs and all other False Hairpieces

[Rikae]

The young fanboy had offended the cast and crew one too many times. From his insistence upon a shield-skateboarding scene to his endless whining for a Liv Tyler cameo, he had pushed the hard-core Tolkienites to the brink of madness. When he suggested cutting Tom Bombadil's second chorus of "Hey! Come derry dol!", it was just too much, and the youngster found himself bound and gagged and roughly deposited in a closet to wait out the remainder of the filming.
It really wasn't anyone's fault that they forgot about him, or that the closet was surprisingly air-tight.

Rune knew his time was up. He put on his elf costume and walked out to the middle of the complex at midnight under the full moon. Bow in hand, he challenged the wolves to come out and fight.

Only one answered; and though Rune fired arrow after arrow from his endless supply, they had no effect but to make the warg look slightly porcupine-like. As the Ranger/Spy watched the hulking, dark form shuffling closer, he looked boldly into its eyes...and knew who it was.

He threw back his head and laughed...and taunted the creature, saying "I see you..." before he was silenced forever.
So much for blond elves.

Night 4 is over. Day 4 dawns. Good luck...

The Cast and Crew

Bit the proverbial dust:

Rikae (Mod) – CG Animator, Rendered and Lighted on Night1
The Sixth Wizard (Ordo) – Protester against Dwarven Comic Relief, Buried in Skulls on Day1
Mithalwen (Ordo) Galadriel– Illuminated...(Electrocuted) on Night2
Boromir88 (Ordo)- Sir Boromir, playing Denethor- Set a record for sprinting while on fire on Day2
Durelin (Ordo)- Special Effects Pyrotechnician-Burst over Bywater on Night3
Thinlómien (Ranger/Assassin)- Non-Winged Balrog-Took a little tumble on Night3
Brinniel (Wolf)-Wacky Foley Artist – Made a lot of noise on Day3
Xyzzy (Ordo)- Young Fanboy-Left breathless on Night4
Rune (Ranger/Spy)-Tolkien geek who is estatic about being an Elf extra - got out of character on Night4


Did not bite said dust:

Volo - Gollum
Legate of Amon Lanc - Sound Master/Saruman
Macalaure - The 7th orc in the 3rd row
Shastanis Althreduin - Legolas' stunt double
The Saucepan Man- Set Catering Manager
Anguirel- Celeborn
Kath - Make-up Artist
Gil-Galad - Zombie-Gil-Galad
Aganzir - Smeagol
Diamond18 - Lady in charge of Wigs and all other False Hairpieces

[Volo]

So... I've been lucky and the Book had an interesting underlined phrase:

"True!" said Aragorn, loosening his sword in its sheath. "But where the warg howls

++Macalaure

Of the rest I'd throw the guess:

SPM - Wolf
Anguirel
Kath - Innocent
Diamond - Wolf
Gil-Galad - Innocent
Shasta

Well, Legate and Aganzir are both Innocent.

[Macalaure]

++Volo


I have to say, Kudos to you! I trusted your great claim of being the Reincarnation of Tolkien first, because I thought that, after all, you were technically not a real gifted. Due to the number of gifteds, I knew that either you or Rune were lying, and now I know who it was.

I would have chosen to just let you go on, but since I am going to get lynched now, I have no choice but to reveal my role.

Unlike Rune and Lommy, who have twin roles, I am, more or less, a regular seer. The exception is that, same as with Rune, I can only see whether a person is an ordo or not.

I'm not sure whether Volo is a wolf or the cobbler (a spectacular one, if I may add), since I haven't dreamt of him, but surely he is not on our side.

[Volo]

Well... Who have you dreamed of?

[Macalaure]

The additional information:

Night One I dreamt of Anguirel and found him to be an ordo. Ang is always difficult to find out, so I thought it was a good pick.

Night Two I dreamt of Boromir, since he was the major question mark on Day One. You now understand why I was so much against lynching him.

Night Three I dreamt of Rune, my main suspect on Day Two, and found him to be not an ordo. Since I found his overall behaviour to be very suspicious, I was quite convinced of his evilness.

Last Night I dreamt of Saucepan Man, who is another ordo.

[Aganzir]

Brinniel about others in posts #180 & #246 . I left Volo, Legate, myself and the dead from the list.

Mac: Difficult to figure out (#180). Will keep an eye on him, but doesn't actually suspect; slightly suspicious (#246).

Spm: Nothing strange in him, but should perhaps take a closer look (#180). Doubts if a wolf would be bold enough to suspect innocent Legate with such a certainty. Possibly innocent (#246).

Ang: Quite confused about him (#180 & #246). Classified as suspicious in #180.

Kath: Her vote on Rune was strange, suspicious (#180). No reason to suspect her, possibly innocent (#246).

Di: Difficult to figure out (#180). Not very suspicious (#246).

Shasta: Not much to say (#180). His voting has been weird, but quite innocentish (#246).

Gil: He's not posting very much. Does that mean he's innocent? Doesn't know... (#180). If Rune's a wolf, then it's possible that Gil's one, too (#246).

Based on this I think Spm's a wolf and Gil's innocent. Of the others it's difficult to say anything.

edit: xed with two Macs and Volo.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Me, when I got the phrase about Esspiem

This might be alarming, but I suggest and hope that you won't start voting for the name to be revealed. I'm not sure of the person's role, but whatever it is, it's not "innocent". So, in case he's the cobbler, let's not vote him, as we do need anti-Wolf-power (aWp) and even a cobbler counts as such. If we really need to lower the Wolf-quantity we should lyncyh him, but not for a few Days still. Sorry, not only did we steal your suspects, but we stole your tongue. I suggest everybody goes and presses "ignore" in SpaM's profile.

Ok. Now that we know that Mac is either a Wolf or a Cobbler, I can reveal my real () phrase:

'But if you want to be introduced to our chief investigator, I can produce him.'
'Where is he?' said Frodo, looking round, as if he expected a masked and sinister figure to come out of a cupboard.

Cross out that preveous phrase, it was just to find out what Mac was.

The real one is about SPM! And he's either the Cobbler or Wolf.


EDIT: Xd with Mac and Aganzir

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Last Night I dreamt of Saucepan Man, who is another ordo.

Ok, this proves it.

[Macalaure]

What kind of game are you playing, Volo?

[Volo]

And that you don't need to go through your LotR copies if you don't know them off by heart I suggest you use this.


EDIT: Xd with Mac. "Loser!" I'm playing nastily. I want to be Heading for Tomorrow.

EDITEDIT: 747th post! \o/

[Aganzir]

Should we try to double lynch Spm and Mac?

[Kath]

Are you kidding me? Another Day with two revelations? And our only way to prove it is to lynch one or the other of them, which I don't really want to do. Thing is, both stories are so plausible! Mac's has an especially neat get out clause with him only able to see whether a person is an ordo or not rather than what they actually are, as now when someone asks 'so why didn't you dream of Volo last Night to find out what he was' he can simply answer 'because he would only have shown up as different'.

*sigh*

I'm more inclined to trust Volo. Mac has no useful information. He's only dreamt of good guys and half of those he's dreamt of are dead. Why would a Seer reveal unless they had at least one wolf bagged? Although to be fair that's an argument against Volo too, did he ever say why he revealed so early?

I suppose we could lynch Legate. Volo has said he is innocent yet most of the village thinks (or at least thought) he was highly suspicious. If he turns out to be innocent it would seem that Volo was on our side.

Ideas people?

[Kath]

Cross-posted with a whole lot of people there right up til Aganzir.

[Macalaure]

You should better start explaining what in Arda you are doing, if you wish to survive this Day.

I'm beginning to doubt you're a wolf. A cobbler on drugs you are!

edit: crossed with Kath and Aganzir.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Kath

I suppose we could lynch Legate. Volo has said he is innocent yet most of the village thinks (or at least thought) he was highly suspicious. If he turns out to be innocent it would seem that Volo was on our side.

I guess lynching Mac or Spm is just as easy a way to find out if Volo's on our side...

[Volo]

Kath... Hey, come on! Why would there be a normal Seer when the other roles are wierd?

EDIT: Xd with Aganzir. Yeah. Pity a doubble-lynch will be messed up by them, but we've got them and they can't run away.

Kath also feels pretty lynchable, don't you think? Oh, I'm overexcited. Let's wait for Ang and Legate and everybody else.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Kath

Mac's has an especially neat get out clause with him only able to see whether a person is an ordo or not rather than what they actually are, as now when someone asks 'so why didn't you dream of Volo last Night to find out what he was' he can simply answer 'because he would only have shown up as different'.

No, I didn't dream of Volo because I already knew he's on the evil side, and I cannot distinguish a wolf from a cobbler.

Why would a Seer reveal unless they had at least one wolf bagged?

Because everybody would have believed Volo if I didn't! What choice did I have?

I suppose we could lynch Legate. Volo has said he is innocent yet most of the village thinks (or at least thought) he was highly suspicious. If he turns out to be innocent it would seem that Volo was on our side.

I suggest to vote Volo. If he is what he claims he is, we can't lynch him anyway.

If Volo lies and you lynch me, you lose your seer and a Day's lynch.

If I lie and you lynch Volo, you lose your seer and a Day's lynch, but the wolves also lose a Night's kill.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Volo

Kath... Hey, come on! Why would there be a normal Seer when the other roles are wierd?

I am no normal seer, as you have surely read from my post.

[Kath]

No Aganzir if Mac is on our side (and it's a big if looking at the evidence Volo has just presented us with) it's too dangerous to test it by lynching him. To be honest though, I'm thinking he's evil. Volo just has too much back up. And I guess he is right, why would there be a normal Seer in this game?

Ok scratch that, I'll lynch Mac.

Volo, I'm mildly confused. What exactly do you know? These riddles or whatever, have you had one for both Mac and Sauce?

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I suggest to vote Volo. If he is what he claims he is, we can't lynch him anyway.

But by "lynching" him we'd make it a lot easier for the wolves to finish him off the next Night, which they couldn't do unless we'd already tried to kill him.

edit: as you surely knew yourself.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I suggest to vote Volo. If he is what he claims he is, we can't lynch him anyway.

If Volo lies and you lynch me, you lose your seer and a Day's lynch.

If I lie and you lynch Volo, you lose your seer and a Day's lynch, but the wolves also lose a Night's kill.

If we lynch me you lose a lynch turn and me, because the wolves will kill me next Night.

If we lynch Mac we lose a wolf, a lynch turn and an innocent or half of me at Night.


Yeah, I'm going to "sleep". Sure, like I can sleep now...


EDIT: Xd with Mac, Kath and Aganzir.

Mac, invent the role NOW, quickly!

Kath, I invented the riddle for Mac to test him out. If he'd acted calmly, I'd have told him that I think he's innocent. And I got the riddle about SPM from Rikae as the Dream.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

But by "lynching" him we'd make it a lot easier for the wolves to finish him off the next Night, which they couldn't do unless we'd already tried to kill him.

Yes, sure you do, but it's still better than lynching me, since I have no special survival power that Volo claims to have.

[Aganzir]

And I think the easiest way for you both is to lynch Spm. If he's a wolf or the cobbler, we can trust Volo and lynch you next. And if not, then it's Volo to die next.

edit: corrected a name

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Volo

If we lynch Mac we lose a wolf, a lynch turn and an innocent or half of me at Night.

Riiight.

Another idea: Since we are now without rangers, I am going to be dead this way or the other, so we could try a double lynching of me and Volo. I would be ready to sacrifice myself for it, since I can't tell you my next dream anyway.

~crossed with Aganzir

[Kath]

And I think the easiest way for you both is to lynch Spm.

I actually agree with that, and the way Sauce responds will certainly tell us something. As an ordo he should really be willing to die to find out the truth (though I know from experience that it's very hard to give yourself up in these games, you want to see them through!). Of course, he'll probably turn up and claim he's the Seer now.

We should NOT lynch Volo and Mac. Mac is doing the put-upon innocent routine right now and whether it's real or not lynching the both of them is just stupid. One of them is our Seer, a double lynch is ridiculous as it will kill both of them. Mac right off and Volo by the end of the Night. The fact that Mac has suggested it has kinda sealed his fate for me, but I'd still rather get some proof.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Volo

Kath, I invented the riddle for Mac to test him out. If he'd acted calmly, I'd have told him that I think he's innocent. And I got the riddle about SPM from Rikae as the Dream.

Volo, would you please stop to edit your posts to such degrees! Of course you can play more sneakier as the baddie you are, but your bending the general rules with that.

PS: If I was an ordo and got that "double fake dream" of yours, I would have protested loudly, too. Being unable to make a counter claim to your claimed seerness, nobody would have believed me and you would have laughed until you were lynched tomorrow.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Note: You are all writing so fast that I had to change this post about three times on walk, but this speaks to the situation in global as well as what has happened through all the time here now.

Just applause! Wonderful move, Volo. (and if you still were to be a wolf, then you are probably the best wolf in history )

And from what you posted, Volo, it looks like SpM might be a Cobbler, more likely. Also the bold way of his accusing would hint it. When I read through Day 3's posts toDay, I thought about that SpM might be a Cobbler, based for example on this:

I have, since I am very familiar with a Wolfish Legate.

I agree that he is far more aggressive now than when he has previously been a Wolf. However, I am pretty sure that this is down to two things. First off, he has been under a fair amount of scrutiny in this game, almost from the off. Secondly, I would not expect him to act the same way now as a Wolf as he has in the past. Indeed, given that there are a number here who have experience of a Wolfish Legate, I would expect him to act quite differently.

I think SpM's actual mind process was that he really thought I'd act the same, so he realized I'm probably not a Wolf, and so thought that it's safe to turn on me. And if he were to be accused based on killing me as innocent, then his death as Cobbler would be ok.

I suggest not lynching SpM now. A Cobbler counts as Innocent concerning the village counts, and Mac seems quite well a wolf.

Originally Posted by Kath

I suppose we could lynch Legate. Volo has said he is innocent yet most of the village thinks (or at least thought) he was highly suspicious. If he turns out to be innocent it would seem that Volo was on our side.

Ideas people?

Yes, based on this, you are a Wolf After all, I'm a revealed innocent, and one person down is better than just losing one life of a two lives possessing Seer.

Originally Posted by Kath

Cross-posted with a whole lot of people there right up til Aganzir.

Look at what she crossed with. Quite a shame, Kath.

And just ignore Mac. He wants to take Volo down with him, as it's, of course, obvious. Then they could kill him the same night.

P.S. Stay careful all. The Wolves might try to wreak havoc and confuse us. I suggest we lynch Mac today and Kath tomorrow, maybe you could check her, Volo? Then we'll see.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Kath

We should NOT lynch Volo and Mac. Mac is doing the put-upon innocent routine right now and whether it's real or not lynching the both of them is just stupid. One of them is our Seer, a double lynch is ridiculous as it will kill both of them. Mac right off and Volo by the end of the Night. The fact that Mac has suggested it has kinda sealed his fate for me, but I'd still rather get some proof.

You assume that Volo is truthful about his claim to have two lives. I highly doubt that.

If we end up lynching the evil person (Volo), then I will die during the night anyway.
If we end up lynching the good person (me), then Volo will continue living and you will have to use another lynch to get rid of him.

~crossed with Legate

[Kath]

Actually Volo I do agree with Mac on that, please don't go back and edit your posts. It took me a full Day to figure out why people were talking about your revelation 'cause I couldn't find a new post with that in.

So you don't actually know Mac is evil? Well that settles it then. We lynch Sauce. Mac says he's innocent, Volo says he's evil. Whatever he turns out to be tells us who we trust.

[Macalaure]

Just why am I not surprised by Legate's reaction.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

PS: If I was an ordo and got that "double fake dream" of yours, I would have protested loudly, too. Being unable to make a counter claim to your claimed seerness, nobody would have believed me and you would have laughed until you were lynched tomorrow.

Yep, if you were an ordo. But then you would have said " I'm just a quiet ordo, I'm simply innocent."

I think Kath is innocent and I agree with lynching SPM though he's probably the Cobbler...

I'm going off now but I'll be around in 18 hours or so.